HW2.0 to 3.0 upgrade - are Tesla in big legal & financial trouble?

[gangzoom]

No one finds it concerning that Tesla haven’t figured out how to do the upgrade?

Tesla are working on something go and follow Green's Twitter account.

Right now HW 2/2.5/3 all do the same thing, and none are remotely close to FSD.

AP on our car stopped working last week during some really bad storms, at exactly the time when I could have done with some help not getting fatigued on a long drive.

Currently FSD features are like a chocolate tea pot, useless regardless of which AP HW version you have.

 

[cwerdna]

In some places the lights go sideways.

Yep. There are numerous places with horizontal traffic lights and some with weird stuff like double left red arrows:.
Google Maps

https://streets.mn/2015/07/24/traffic-signals-abroad/ has some unusual traffic lights like 5 in vertical row + some other examples from outside the US.

https://www.japantimes.co.jp/life/2013/02/25/language/the-japanese-traffic-light-blues-stop-on-red-go-on-what/ shows how Japanese traffic lights have red on the right and green/blue on the left. But, they also drive on the left side of the road.

 

[Nuclear Fusion]

Yep. There are numerous places with horizontal traffic lights and some with weird stuff like double left red arrows:.
Google Maps

https://streets.mn/2015/07/24/traffic-signals-abroad/ has some unusual traffic lights like 5 in vertical row + some other examples from outside the US.

https://www.japantimes.co.jp/life/2013/02/25/language/the-japanese-traffic-light-blues-stop-on-red-go-on-what/ shows how Japanese traffic lights have red on the right and green/blue on the left. But, they also drive on the left side of the road.

Cheers for the facts. It’s why I said “for starters”

 

[jbcarioca]

You can also just try to schedule an appointment with the app.
Select Upgrades and put in the description that you want the HW3 upgrade. Either they will cancel it or perform the service.

I did this for my 2018 model 3 and the app initially scheduled a Mobile Service appointment automatically. I haven't heard of them doing any of the upgrades via mobile service so I was curious what would happen. The next day the appointment got automatically rescheduled at the closest service center. The date chosen didn't really work for me, but I was able to easily pick another date a few days away.

I'm still curious if they will cancel it before I get there, but so far so good. Appointment is for March 2nd.

I had the identical experience. I did physically go to the SC to confirm. Mine is scheduled for the 25th. The SC told me that the instrument panel had to. E removed to make the Model 3 upgrade.

 

[mxnym]

Building off my previous response, I have a friend with a 2017 X just like me and he got the HW3 upgrade. Believe it or not he still doesn't have the ability to record video. The recording is actually a MCU2 feature that older 2017 MCU1 cars don't have.

The recording teslacam/sentry mode is a HW25+ feature. My september 2017 HW25/MCU1 records just fine in both modes.

This is correct, but early HW2.5 didn't come out until mid 2017, so the real question is did his friend get upgraded from 2.0 to 3.0 (which seems even more unlikely than a 2.5 to 3.0 upgrade that, AFAIK, we're not sure are happening yet), or does his friend actually have MCU2 and simply not understand how to enable recording to begin with?

 

[trekkie]

Black & white cameras would struggle with traffic lights, for starters

Except, they won't. By design, and by law, the lights are in mandated positions. You can not put a red light at the bottom in the US for example...

We've had color blind people for a lot longer than color blind cameras, and laws were put in place to determine the position of the light. So all the FSD needs to know is 'top light red' regardless of what it sees color wise.

 

[M3BlueGeorgia]

Except, they won't. By design, and by law, the lights are in mandated positions. You can not put a red light at the bottom in the US for example...

We've had color blind people for a lot longer than color blind cameras, and laws were put in place to determine the position of the light. So all the FSD needs to know is 'top light red' regardless of what it sees color wise.

Better example: You are approaching a junction with a flashing light. If red, you have to stop before proceeding. If orange, you have right of way, but proceed with care.

 

[mxnym]

Better example: You are approaching a junction with a flashing light. If red, you have to stop before proceeding. If orange, you have right of way, but proceed with care.

If red, there should be a stop line on the pavement and most often there is even a stop sign. Also, AFAIK, the HW2.0 cameras aren't actually black and white, they are 2 color, allowing them to differentiate between traffic light colors, making the whole argument moot.

 

[webfootguy]

Computers know that the Red light is on the top, the Yellow in the middle and the Green on the bottom

And then there is this light:

Syracuse, NY - Green on Top Traffic Light

 

[S4WRXTTCS]

And then there is this light:

Syracuse, NY - Green on Top Traffic Light

"It is said that the residents successfully persuaded the installation of an upside down stoplight."

This is pretty much why we any self-driving car needs to be geofenced. There is always the chance that some community decided to do something weird or non-standard.

 

[mxnym]

"It is said that the residents successfully persuaded the installation of an upside down stoplight."

This is pretty much why we any self-driving car needs to be geofenced. There is always the chance that some community decided to do something weird or non-standard.

No, self driving cars don't need to be geofenced. Standards need to be followed. Who gets sued the first time someone dies when a colorblind person blows that light?

ETA: Not to mention this:

Also, AFAIK, the HW2.0 cameras aren't actually black and white, they are 2 color, allowing them to differentiate between traffic light colors, making the whole argument moot.

Nor to mention the fact that 2.5+ CAN see color and 2.0 cameras MAY be upgraded regardless.

 

[Yinn]

Building off my previous response, I have a friend with a 2017 X just like me and he got the HW3 upgrade. Believe it or not he still doesn't have the ability to record video. The recording is actually a MCU2 feature that older 2017 MCU1 cars don't have.

I could try to find it if I really wanted - but there was an Elon tweet recently responding to MSU upgrades where he said it is technically possible to upgrade but would cost the user roughly $2,000 for nominal infotainment upgrades. Personally I would do it if nothing else than to speed up the laggy touch screen. But Sentry Mode recording and Games/Streaming Video is a huge plus too... not to get too off topic.

This is correct, but early HW2.5 didn't come out until mid 2017, so the real question is did his friend get upgraded from 2.0 to 3.0 (which seems even more unlikely than a 2.5 to 3.0 upgrade that, AFAIK, we're not sure are happening yet), or does his friend actually have MCU2 and simply not understand how to enable recording to begin with?

@mxnym hit it right on the head. Either there's a misunderstanding somewhere, or your friend has a rare AP2.0/MCU1 to AP3.0 upgrade that we all understand to be impossible at this point in time. We'd love to get more info on it.

 

[S4WRXTTCS]

Standards need to be followed

I completely agree that standards should be followed, and that we should go through a process of harmonizing our road rules across all 50 states.

But, what are you going to do while that's taking place? It's not just stop lights, but there are all sorts of crazy things. Like ridiculous signage or extremely ambiguous roads.

What could help accelerate improve the infrastructure?

Geofencing.

Sure I know that's not the holy grail of L5, but I think we need to be a bit more realistic and focus on L4.

L4 by definition is geofenced.

 

[brkaus]

I would like to know how to get on the upgrade list. I have a Jan 2017 Model X P100D with FSD. Do I just make a SC appointment?

You will be wasting everyones time. There is no upgrade for the AP2.0 cars yet.

 

[brkaus]

Better example: You are approaching a junction with a flashing light. If red, you have to stop before proceeding. If orange, you have right of way, but proceed with care.

Turn and ask wife.

But seriously, I have never seen a flashing red light that was not either - above a stop sign OR in a standard traffic light that can be identified by position.

 

[M3BlueGeorgia]

Turn and ask wife.

But seriously, I have never seen a flashing red light that was not either - above a stop sign OR in a standard traffic light that can be identified by position.

Outside a fire station, for one.

Yes normally above stop signs

But also a fallback on traffic lights with a system failure.

 

[Nuclear Fusion]

Tesla officially starts offering $2,500 infotainment upgrade - Electrek

I wonder if this gets Tesla out of a tight spot

 

[M3BlueGeorgia]

Tesla officially starts offering $2,500 infotainment upgrade - Electrek

I wonder if this gets Tesla out of a tight spot

An interesting upgrade option.

Any other automobile company out there allowing people with 6 year old vehicles to swap it's old main computer for a current one?

It appears that even AP1 vehicles can get MCU2.

 

[dgatwood]

And then there is this light:

Syracuse, NY - Green on Top Traffic Light

Position doesn't matter anyway.

Red channel == Grey channel : Light is red
Red channel < grey channel : Light is yellow
Red channel nearly black, grey channel lit: Light is green or blue

So as long as the stop and yield lights are red and yellow, you're fine.

 

[cwerdna]

Besides some of the boundary cases of traffic lights already mentioned there are others like:
- traffic light totally out due to malfunction or power outage (so treat like a stop sign/4 way stop) vs.
- traffic light covered up (not operational yet)
- weird pedestrian signals like https://www.sfgate.com/bayarea/article/Santa-Clara-County-new-pedestrian-traffic-light-11240773.php - Yes, I've seen these and their normal state is no lights lit.
- https://mocktheorytest.com/resources/traffic-lights-uk/ has slight differences from the US (if correct)
- I'd heard of Traffic lights: why yellow before green? in the UK.

Better example: You are approaching a junction with a flashing light. If red, you have to stop before proceeding. If orange, you have right of way, but proceed with care.

- And, in the US we don't have flashing green lights but they do in Canada, with different at least two different meanings depending on the province: Why B.C.'s flashing green lights don't mean the same thing as those in Ontario.

In Ontario and a few other places, a flashing green light – when you can still find one – means you can turn left without stopping.

But in British Columbia and the Yukon, that more relaxed flashing green means you're at a pedestrian-controlled intersection and you should watch out for people crossing.

"I understand it means something different in other places," says Vancouver police Const. Brian Montague. "But here, it's always been to show it's a light controlled by pedestrians."

The light keeps flashing green until somebody pushes the button to change it.
...
In Alberta, Ontario, Quebec, New Brunswick, Nova Scotia, Northwest Territories and Nunavut, the driving manuals say a flashing green light means the same thing as a left-pointing arrow and a green light: it's an advance green. Oncoming traffic is still facing a red. You may turn left, go straight ahead or turn right.

The remaining province's manuals don't mention flashing green lights at all.

I have driven in BC a bunch of times but never in the other provinces. Flashing green to an American not knowing the above means nothing. Busted traffic light?

I was told about both definitions by a Canadian when he asked another American about flashing green. This was LONG ago, likely before Google was even founded, which was back in 1998. The other American and myself didn't know. Other American guessed "busted traffic light?"

Hopefully someone can chime in on current traffic light status in the UK.