HW2 not enough for self-driving?

[SoCal Tsla]

*sigh* You're really giving me a hard time here

Please understand that "FSD" is a marketing term, born and raised in Palo Alto, California, USA.

"FSD" is not in any way recognized by SAE as being "better", "worse" or "equal" to levels 2, 3, 4 or 5. On the contrary -- here's SAEs official take on self driving:


You see, SAE has worked out precise definitions of the various levels of automation. So if you want to make a claim that Tesla has promised you a certain (SAE) level of automation, you have to think long and hard about what "FSD" gives you -- the consumer -- the impression of, with respect to SAEs definitions.

Ok, I'll challenge you: When you opted for "FSD", did you expect that the system would execute every part of the driving task under all circumstances? Or did you realize/expect that the system was limited -- "somehow"? Well if the latter is true: Exactly what/which limitation/s did you consider and accept before you made your puchase? Remember you have to justify your answer to that question: Why that/those limitation/s, and not others?

(Yeah I'm provoking you a bit here, but I think these are valid questions that must be answered when dealing with "FSD" vs. SAELOA.)

I understand what you are talking about and agree to it 100%

 

[Kant.Ing]

So L3 requires FSD. That's what I want, and that's why I paid for FSD before delivery. And happily so.

No, FSDC is SAE Level 6. Don't forget FSDC has an elongated definition and more details will be released even next year.

"Build upon Enhanced Autopilot and order Full Self-Driving Capability on your Tesla. This doubles the number of active cameras from four to eight, enabling full self-driving in almost all circumstances, at what we believe will be a probability of safety at least twice as good as the average human driver. The system is designed to be able to conduct short and long distance trips with no action required by the person in the driver’s seat. For Superchargers that have automatic charge connection enabled, you will not even need to plug in your vehicle.

All you will need to do is get in and tell your car where to go. If you don’t say anything, the car will look at your calendar and take you there as the assumed destination or just home if nothing is on the calendar. Your Tesla will figure out the optimal route, navigate urban streets (even without lane markings), manage complex intersections with traffic lights, stop signs and roundabouts, and handle densely packed freeways with cars moving at high speed. When you arrive at your destination, simply step out at the entrance and your car will enter park seek mode, automatically search for a spot and park itself. A tap on your phone summons it back to you.

Please note that Self-Driving functionality is dependent upon extensive software validation and regulatory approval, which may vary widely by jurisdiction. It is not possible to know exactly when each element of the functionality described above will be available, as this is highly dependent on local regulatory approval. Please note also that using a self-driving Tesla for car sharing and ride hailing for friends and family is fine, but doing so for revenue purposes will only be permissible on the Tesla Network, details of which will be released next year."

 

[Saghost]

No, FSDC is SAE Level 6. Don't forget FSDC has an elongated definition and more details will be released even next year.

"Build upon Enhanced Autopilot and order Full Self-Driving Capability on your Tesla. This doubles the number of active cameras from four to eight, enabling full self-driving in almost all circumstances, at what we believe will be a probability of safety at least twice as good as the average human driver. The system is designed to be able to conduct short and long distance trips with no action required by the person in the driver’s seat. For Superchargers that have automatic charge connection enabled, you will not even need to plug in your vehicle.

All you will need to do is get in and tell your car where to go. If you don’t say anything, the car will look at your calendar and take you there as the assumed destination or just home if nothing is on the calendar. Your Tesla will figure out the optimal route, navigate urban streets (even without lane markings), manage complex intersections with traffic lights, stop signs and roundabouts, and handle densely packed freeways with cars moving at high speed. When you arrive at your destination, simply step out at the entrance and your car will enter park seek mode, automatically search for a spot and park itself. A tap on your phone summons it back to you.

Please note that Self-Driving functionality is dependent upon extensive software validation and regulatory approval, which may vary widely by jurisdiction. It is not possible to know exactly when each element of the functionality described above will be available, as this is highly dependent on local regulatory approval. Please note also that using a self-driving Tesla for car sharing and ride hailing for friends and family is fine, but doing so for revenue purposes will only be permissible on the Tesla Network, details of which will be released next year."

You're looking at the final goal of FSDC. He's talking about the boundary between eAP and FSDC in the interim. Looked at that way, I think he's probably right.

eAP will become a very good Level 2 system, but I'm not sure it's ever expected to be Level 3 - I think you'll always be expected to be ready to take over at any time under eAP.

FSDC will likely start with some level 3 technology and then progressively roll up the chart until it does everything.

 

[BioSehnsucht]

The verbiage "enabling full self-driving in almost all circumstances" would seem to imply Level 4 at best, not Level 5, and certainly not a fictional Level 6.

 

[brkaus]

I really wish Tesla would have differentiated between EAP and FSDC more clearly. The whole camera thing is vague.

I would guess EAP would be lane keeping, driver monitoring at all times. Or perhaps freeway driving.

FSDC would be tied to the map.

I'm not sure if I would expect EAP to understand stoplights for example.

 

[Tam]

....The whole camera thing is vague....

I understand that Autopilot requires a licensed human driver. If there's an accident, it is not the machine's fault but the fault of human driver who allows the machine to commit an accident. That is why you only need 4 cameras: 3 in front and one in rear. Instead of paying for additional 4 cameras, you can get free labor from human driver's eyes.


Full Self-Driving Capability does not require any licensed human at the helm at all. If there's an accident and the driver's seat is empty, you just can't blame on the eyes of a human driver anymore, thus there are additional 4 cameras: 2 side forward, 2 side rearward.

EAP only promises to give you hands-free freeway driving from on-ramp to off-ramp but you are still responsible for the drive. Tesla may add more features to that promise as a bonus.

 

[Saghost]

I understand that Autopilot requires a licensed human driver. If there's an accident, it is not the machine's fault but the fault of human driver who allows the machine to commit an accident. That is why you only need 4 cameras: 3 in front and one in rear. Instead of paying for additional 4 cameras, you can get free labor from human driver's eyes.


Full Self-Driving Capability does not require any licensed human at the helm at all. If there's an accident and the driver's seat is empty, you just can't blame on the eyes of a human driver anymore, thus there are additional 4 cameras: 2 side forward, 2 side rearward.

EAP only promises to give you hands-free freeway driving from on-ramp to off-ramp but you are still responsible for the drive. Tesla may add more features to that promise as a bonus.

Actually, the eAP four are the two longer range front and the rear side cameras.

FSDC adds the front and rear wide ankle and the front/side cameras.

The general assumption is that eAP needs the rear side cameras for blind spot detection, since it will eventually change lands on its own.

 

[owen.shift]

I got FSD because I want to be able to put the car in the second lane of a three lane Autobahn, and have it stay in that lane, at a set speed of 140 kph/85 mph, or slow down if there is a slower car in that lane; without me having to constantly supervise it.
I want to be able to take my eyes off the road and do something else. Research something online, for example.

Remember you have to justify your answer to that question

No, I don't.