I can't wondering whether they will use higher quality paint in China production

[p4594spa]

Big reason that Tesla has had such trouble with their paint quality is that the State of California forces them to utilize water-based paints where as factories elsewhere can use better quality paints

 

[jonquiljo]

Big reason that Tesla has had such trouble with their paint quality is that the State of California forces them to utilize water-based paints where as factories elsewhere can use better quality paints

You're kidding! This is all the State of California has to think about?

How about "avocado based" paints???

 

[giantshark18]

I bet if a huge plant became available for Tesla to takeover in the Southeast, Telsa would be out of CA in a flash. It offers no advantage to produce cars here. It's not like it helps them fulfill CA orders faster. In fact, they take us for granted and deliver our cars last.

 

[SSedan]

Yeah because China is known for the best quality products...............
China market is going to be heavily price driven, though if they can find a paint that is cheap and full of heavy metals, maybe some ozone destroying propellent and carcinogenic solvents I am sure they will be happy to use that.

For clarity I am not a green nut, my Tesla is 55% coal powered, I am just more honest about China than most are willing to let themselves be.

You might want to believe "Tesla" will be in control but the locals will change things behind their backs.

 

[dandrewk]

While it doesn't fit the "California is a bunch of liberal tree huggers" narrative, virtually all modern cars use water based acrylic paints, and have been so since the '90's. Yes, the reasons are mostly environmental, although acrylic paints are much easier to apply. So, let's screw the planet and poison ourselves because car paint durability is critical. Let's go all the way and make the paint lead based while we're at it.

 

[dandrewk]

I bet if a huge plant became available for Tesla to takeover in the Southeast, Telsa would be out of CA in a flash. It offers no advantage to produce care here. It's not like it helps them fulfill CA orders faster. In fact, they take us for granted and deliver our cars last.

Not even remotely close to reality.

• Automotive plants aren't plug and go. The entire production line in any new plant would have to be built from scratch
• Fremont is relatively close to the Nevada battery factory
• Tesla corporate is headquartered in Palo Alto

If they did move out of California, they would still use acrylic paints. Luckily, we are not alone in protecting the environment.

 

[giantshark18]

While it doesn't fit the "California is a bunch of liberal tree huggers" narrative, virtually all modern cars use water based acrylic paints, and have been so since the '90's. Yes, the reasons are mostly environmental, although acrylic paints are much easier to apply. So, let's screw the planet and poison ourselves because car paint durability is critical. Let's go all the way and make the paint lead based while we're at it.

You hurt your own argument in that if every other automaker is using similar paints, why is Tesla seem to have an issue delivering quality paint jobs from the start? It seems to be a rarity when someone gets a Model 3 with a flawless paint job. It might be fine if they were producing entry level 15k cars, but for 55K, I should not have to worry about rejecting delivery because of crappy workmanship.

 

[FielderJones]

You hurt your own argument in that if every other automaker is using similar paints, why is Tesla seem to have an issue delivering quality paint jobs from the start? It seems to be a rarity when someone gets a Model 3 with a flawless paint job. It might be fine if they were producing entry level 15k cars, but for 55K, I should not have to worry about rejecting delivery because of crappy workmanship.

My April 2019 build SR+ had a flawless paint job. My sister's October 2019 LR AWD had flawless paint job. You only hear about the few bad ones on this forum. The other 97000 cars delivered in 2019 Q4 had good paint jobs.

 

[dandrewk]

You hurt your own argument in that if every other automaker is using similar paints, why is Tesla seem to have an issue delivering quality paint jobs from the start? It seems to be a rarity when someone gets a Model 3 with a flawless paint job. It might be fine if they were producing entry level 15k cars, but for 55K, I should not have to worry about rejecting delivery because of crappy workmanship.

I never made that argument to begin with. I just countered the notion that acrylic based paints on Teslas is neither unique more forced upon them by California.

The QC of paint jobs has improved dramatically over the past year, as with other areas of manufacture.

Show me another $55k car that comes off the line with a flawless paint job. Go to other car forums and ask them how flawless their new car is. You'll get a lot of "LOL" responses.

 

[hmmwv]

Considering how often Chinese customers bitch and making a scene about QC at Mercedes and BMW I doubt poor quality paint job will pass muster. Remember even though GF3 will be making fairly cheap Teslas they are still considerably more expensive than alternatives and definitely well into the luxury car segment. That's why relatively to the EV market size Tesla doesn't really sell that well over there, simply because the quality is not up to expectations. If GF3 indeed is not bound by the water based paint rule and can use more durable paint like all other automakers then hopefully they will do it, otherwise luckily for Chinese consumers labor is cheap so doing PPF or ceramic coating is extremely cheap. Almost all cars get PPF there, it take $500 to do a high end PPF job.

 

[LOL@GAS]

Big reason that Tesla has had such trouble with their paint quality is that the State of California forces them to utilize water-based paints where as factories elsewhere can use better quality paints

As much as I love my great state of CA, it has the dumpiest laws, & ridiculous tax ever. Gas is expensive as it is & CA tax us more on top of the high price, CA "Gas Tax." This is why I can't wait to go full electric clean energy & my house running on clean solar energy.

 

[dandrewk]

As much as I love my great state of CA, it has the dumpiest laws, & ridiculous tax ever. Gas is expensive as it is & CA tax us more on top of the high price, CA "Gas Tax." This is why I can't wait to go full electric clean energy & my house running on clean solar energy.

Why not. During our recent three day outage, every electron we consumed was generated by the sun, including topping off EVs.

(probably not best discussed in this forum though).

 

[SSedan]

Tesla's QC issues come from rapid ramp up.
Legacy manufacturers have been painting cars in volume for decades and longer.

Local workforce matters too. Do you have an experienced manufacturing workforce or do you have a bunch of newbs? New blood is critical, but Model 3 production ramped up so hard so fast I have to think a strong majority have relatively little time in.

 

[jonquiljo]

As much as I love my great state of CA, it has the dumpiest laws, & ridiculous tax ever. Gas is expensive as it is & CA tax us more on top of the high price, CA "Gas Tax." This is why I can't wait to go full electric clean energy & my house running on clean solar energy.

California has some of the highest taxes in the country. Please don't get me started on them! All this state does is constantly take money from the people who live and work here.

Why Tesla chose Fremont is beyond me. California has about the worst environment for a company to thrive, etc. I guess Elon Musk wants to work in Palo Alto and manufacture in Fremont. I guess that empty factory was there, but I bet he regrets it now.

To live here it's a requirement to save one endangered species per year.

And you must flush once every 10 times used.

30 second showers.

Pleather shoes.

You must bury all garbage in your backyard in excess of one can per week.

I think you get the idea!

 

[neorobo]

As much as I love my great state of CA, it has the dumpiest laws, & ridiculous tax ever. Gas is expensive as it is & CA tax us more on top of the high price, CA "Gas Tax." This is why I can't wait to go full electric clean energy & my house running on clean solar energy.

You realize that you're a walking advertisement for why the gas tax exists right?

 

[jonquiljo]

You realize that you're a walking advertisement for why the gas tax exists right?

California has the nerve to add something like $100 per year to registration tax of EV's - just because EV's don't end up paying gas tax.

So on one hand California gives big tax incentives to buy the cars and then taxes EV owners to compensate for the lack of revenue from EV's.

That is so California! (see, I added an underline for you!) And being a boomer has it's advantages - though we don't get to live that much longer.

 

[dandrewk]

It's plainly obvious why Tesla chose Fremont. There was a huge, empty car factory sitting idle with a landlord (GM) hungry to get revenue and make a deal. There was also a huge local populace with decades of experience building cars. To incentivize further, Alameda County and the evil State of California gave them tax breaks. Oh, and it was in their own back yard and close to the tech industry they would rely on to build a high tech car.

Result? Thousands of new jobs and 100s of millions dollars in new tax revenue, to say nothing about extending Silicon Valley in Fremont. Compare housing costs now with seven years ago. Now check compare crime rates.

California bashing seems to be vogue. So much of it is politically motivated and parroted by folks gullible enough to believe the rhetoric.

 

[neorobo]

It's plainly obvious why Tesla chose Fremont. There was a huge, empty car factory sitting idle with a landlord (GM) hungry to get revenue and make a deal. There was also a huge local populace with decades of experience building cars. To incentivize further, Alameda County and the evil State of California gave them tax breaks. Oh, and it was in their own back yard and close to the tech industry they would rely on to build a high tech car.

Result? Thousands of new jobs and 100s of millions dollars in new tax revenue, to say nothing about extending Silicon Valley in Fremont. Compare housing costs now with seven years ago. Now check compare crime rates.

California bashing seems to be vogue. So much of it is politically motivated and parroted by folks gullible enough to believe the rhetoric.

Couldn't have said it better myself!

 

[jonquiljo]

It's plainly obvious why Tesla chose Fremont. There was a huge, empty car factory sitting idle with a landlord (GM) hungry to get revenue and make a deal. There was also a huge local populace with decades of experience building cars. To incentivize further, Alameda County and the evil State of California gave them tax breaks. Oh, and it was in their own back yard and close to the tech industry they would rely on to build a high tech car.

Result? Thousands of new jobs and 100s of millions dollars in new tax revenue, to say nothing about extending Silicon Valley in Fremont. Compare housing costs now with seven years ago. Now check compare crime rates.

California bashing seems to be vogue. So much of it is politically motivated and parroted by folks gullible enough to believe the rhetoric.

I dunno. I came to work in Silicon Valley 1982 (definitely a boomer!) - and it has gotten so crowded and overpriced that we left there in 1996. I have to go to Stanford Hospital a lot, and am shocked when I am down there.

My wife grew up in PA/Menlo Park. She said they had tons of cows in the early 60's. No cows anymore. (we're definitely talking boomer!)

The people who work at the Fremont factory could not possibly afford to live there. Paying millions for housing is not normal. Definitely not when you have a house that's often older than your parents are/were.

California taxes are exorbitant. I mean up to 13.3% (or something like that)? That isn't California bashing. It is true.

I live here because this is where my home is. But it is a little nuts!

 

[jonquiljo]

It's plainly obvious why Tesla chose Fremont. There was a huge, empty car factory sitting idle with a landlord (GM) hungry to get revenue and make a deal. There was also a huge local populace with decades of experience building cars. To incentivize further, Alameda County and the evil State of California gave them tax breaks. Oh, and it was in their own back yard and close to the tech industry they would rely on to build a high tech car.

Result? Thousands of new jobs and 100s of millions dollars in new tax revenue, to say nothing about extending Silicon Valley in Fremont. Compare housing costs now with seven years ago. Now check compare crime rates.

California bashing seems to be vogue. So much of it is politically motivated and parroted by folks gullible enough to believe the rhetoric.

Not politics. It's definitely not politics. I don't know what it is. We bash California but will never leave. No logic in that, but not political.