I got HW 4.0 but NO FSD Beta

[Cosmacelf]

FWIW, I think Tesla's communications on FSD vs. FSD Beta is dumb and the 3 month trial they are giving to people for FSD that doesn't include access to Beta is driving frustration because of this confusion.

I agree! This thread argument is a perfect example of that. Moreover all the YouTube videos show FSDb and Elon has tweeted about it being “available” to everyone, so the expectation is that you get FSDb. I gotta say that it was majorly annoying when I traded my previous X for my current X and I had to wait like 6 months to get FSDb again. I am at the point where I can finally downsize to an S from an X, and I’m not going to pull the trigger until I can get FSDb on my new car.

FSDb is actually useful now and I use it often.

 

[uscbucsfan]

I agree! This thread argument is a perfect example of that. Moreover all the YouTube videos show FSDb and Elon has tweeted about it being “available” to everyone, so the expectation is that you get FSDb. I gotta say that it was majorly annoying when I traded my previous X for my current X and I had to wait like 6 months to get FSDb again. I am at the point where I can finally downsize to an S from an X, and I’m not going to pull the trigger until I can get FSDb on my new car.

FSDb is actually useful now and I use it often.

And if you message Tesla they will say "FSD is currently activated on your vehicle" like FSD Beta doesn't exist. It's ridiculous.

 

[ewoodrick]

You are on FSD Beta, the new versions contain Beta, but not all users can access them, even with subscriptions/purchases of FSD. Those users can use FSD currently.

You've got my head twirling.

So what versions of FSD are the "not all users" accessing?

I will absolutely agree that there are people that have purchased or have gotten a free trial of FSD, but don't have it enabled, because they are on a different software branch. But they don't "Have FSD" they've only purchased it. It's not two products.

What other piece of software are you talking about?

What is your idea of the current version of FSD?
The current version of FSD Beta?

 

[uscbucsfan]

You've got my head twirling.

So what versions of FSD are the "not all users" accessing?

I will absolutely agree that there are people that have purchased or have gotten a free trial of FSD, but don't have it enabled, because they are on a different software branch. But they don't "Have FSD" they've only purchased it. It's not two products.

What other piece of software are you talking about?

What is your idea of the current version of FSD?
The current version of FSD Beta?

It's not 2 products in a traditional sense as FSD Beta isn't sold, cannot be purchased or subscribed to, but FSD is something that can work on all version. It enables Summons, Autopark, Navigate on Autopilot, stop for greenlight and stop signs. FSD Beta is an early access program that Tesla enables via new software. You can be suspended from it and they go through long periods before they allow "new testers". There was a 2 week period in December 2022 that anyone who had FSD could get access to FSD Beta, but that ended.

The most current version of FSD is 11.4.4 (11.4.5 which is 2023.7.25 was released internally, but seems to have died).
New versions of standard firmware have FSD 11.3.6, still a branch of the Beta testing program, but will not work on HW4 cars.

Since the beginning Tesla has used both the Safety Score and versioning to restrict access to the Beta program. It's not out of the ordinary for Tesla to continue to develop a branch of FSD behind old code as it limits cars ability to request or get into the program. We've also had jumps, when Tesla let in a lot of new testers within a point release where the car when from very old base software to new software like 10.69 did, it jumped several version from .1 to .2 to allow new testers in.

The cars getting a free 3 month trial get the FSD features, but are not able to access FSD Beta. Tesla's response to this is that City Streets is not currently part of FSD, but it's coming soon and this trial includes all aspects currently available for FSD. Service typically doesn't even acknowledge FSD Beta as a thing as it's "limited early access beta program".

Clear as mud, right?

 

[ewoodrick]

It's not 2 products in a traditional sense as FSD Beta isn't sold, cannot be purchased or subscribed to, but FSD is something that can work on all version. It enables Summons, Autopark, Navigate on Autopilot, stop for greenlight and stop signs. FSD Beta is an early access program that Tesla enables via new software. You can be suspended from it and they go through long periods before they allow "new testers". There was a 2 week period in December 2022 that anyone who had FSD could get access to FSD Beta, but that ended.

The most current version of FSD is 11.4.4 (11.4.5 which is 2023.7.25 was released internally, but seems to have died).
New versions of standard firmware have FSD 11.3.6, still a branch of the Beta testing program, but will not work on HW4 cars.

The cars getting a free 3 month trial get the FSD features, but are not able to access FSD Beta. Tesla's response to this is that City Streets is not currently part of FSD, but it's coming soon and this trial includes all aspects currently available for FSD. Service typically doesn't even acknowledge FSD Beta as a thing as it's "limited early access beta program".

You didn't believe me before, so I don't suspect that you will now. The old "FSD Beta Program" was ended last year. It no longer exists.

The reason why the 2 week period existed is that's when the software releases crossed paths for a short time. That was the time that a non-FSD car could switch to a FSD car.

And there is still a "limited early access beta program" that exists. Adding to it closed basically over 5 years ago. That group gets access after employees and before general public.

The ONLY reason why a vehicle doesn't have access to FSD is because

• The owner hasn't purchased or received a trial to it
• The car is on software on a different branch

AFAIK, the only way to get it, if you don't have it, is to wait for the branches to cross again. And that's hopefully getting soon.

The FSD version that most people are getting is 11.3.6 which came out in April and is, I believe, the first V11 instance to make it widespread. Most of the previous V11 didn't make it out of testing. It's also the version that's being loaded, but not enabled in newer non-FSD releases.

 

[uscbucsfan]

You didn't believe me before, so I don't suspect that you will now. The old "FSD Beta Program" was ended last year. It no longer exists.

The reason why the 2 week period existed is that's when the software releases crossed paths for a short time. That was the time that a non-FSD car could switch to a FSD car.

And there is still a "limited early access beta program" that exists. Adding to it closed basically over 5 years ago. That group gets access after employees and before general public.

The ONLY reason why a vehicle doesn't have access to FSD is because

• The owner hasn't purchased or received a trial to it
• The car is on software on a different branch

AFAIK, the only way to get it, if you don't have it, is to wait for the branches to cross again. And that's hopefully getting soon.

There's no proof of that. Before you cited an Elon tweet from December, which it was available to all then, but that ended.

They are intentionally, and have always done this, keeping the 11.4 version behind to limit people from accessing FSD Beta, but they are still providing FSD to cars and everything in the world backs this, including the information on Tesla's website.

What proof do you have to what you are saying? I can literally show you 4 things from Tesla's website that says FSD does not include City Streets and show you where they are giving 3 month trials to FSD, but it doesn't include city streets.

Also, your "it closed basically 5 years ago" is ridiculous. Safety Score trials were still a thing until 10.69, which was late last year.

You seem to make your own definitions of things up considering this and your own conclusion that FSD Beta is basically level 4 or 5, which even Elon wouldn't agree with. Just as before you are arguing on your own island. You ignore Tesla's direct messaging about both things, because you have something different in your head, but it's not reality.

 

[ewoodrick]

There's no proof of that. Before you cited an Elon tweet from December, which it was available to all then, but that ended.

They are intentionally, and have always done this, keeping the 11.4 version behind to limit people from accessing FSD Beta, but they are still providing FSD to cars and everything in the world backs this, including the information on Tesla's website.

What proof do you have to what you are saying? I can literally show you 4 things from Tesla's website that says FSD does not include City Streets and show you where they are giving 3 month trials to FSD, but it doesn't include city streets.

Also, your "it closed basically 5 years ago" is ridiculous. Safety Score trials were still a thing until 10.69, which was late last year.

You seem to make your own definitions of things up considering this and your own conclusion that FSD Beta is basically level 4 or 5, which even Elon wouldn't agree with. Just as before you are arguing on your own island. You ignore Tesla's direct messaging about both things, because you have something different in your head, but it's not reality.

It doesn't work that way. You need to provide the proof that Tesla was lying.

The original closed beta group (actually more alpha) was created YEARS before safety score was created.

So, show me the references on the Tesla website.

 

[uscbucsfan]

It doesn't work that way. You need to provide the proof that Tesla was lying.

The original closed beta group (actually more alpha) was created YEARS before safety score was created.

So, show me the references on the Tesla website.

Show me where Tesla said FSD Beta was over...They never did. Elon said:

“Tesla Full Self-Driving Beta is now available to anyone in North America who requests it from the car screen, assuming you have bought this option,” writes Musk. “Congrats to [the] Tesla Autopilot/AI team on achieving a major milestone!”

He didn't say Beta was gone, he didn't say that was forever and he said you have to request to get it, meaning there are still 2 programs. It's prudent to point out Elon almost more often than not is wrong/misleads. He also said the nag would be gone in January or ASS was coming last November or a million other things.

It's all over Tesla's website what comes with FSD, driving on City streets is not yet included.

Show me anything official that says Beta is available to everyone. Show me anywhere that Autosteer on City Streets comes with FSD.

Also, the original Beta testers still get Beta before Safety Score testers. It's typically Employees, OG Group, Select Safety Score Group, then batches of everyone else.

Luckily or unlucky, somehow, I've been in the OG group since early last year. I get releases that Tesla ditches.

 

[fasteddie7]

You didn't believe me before, so I don't suspect that you will now. The old "FSD Beta Program" was ended last year. It no longer exists.

Maybe I’m misunderstanding what you are saying, but every update I get says beta on the tag, to me this is FSD beta, and anything else while purchased or subscribed is FSD capable with city streets coming someday.

 

[uscbucsfan]

Maybe I’m misunderstanding what you are saying, but every update I get says beta on the tag, to me this is FSD beta, and anything else while purchased or subscribed is FSD capable with city streets coming someday. View attachment 958141

I think he is the one misunderstanding. He took Elon's tweet in December as Beta is over.

 

[ewoodrick]

Maybe I’m misunderstanding what you are saying, but every update I get says beta on the tag, to me this is FSD beta, and anything else while purchased or subscribed is FSD capable with city streets coming someday.
View attachment 958141

It's ALL beta. Most people use the terms interchangeably, but @uscbucsfan makes a difference. The reference to city streets is just a hangover from the old NoA days. As Tesla ended last year, they were working on a release that replaced the NoA on highways software with the software that was FSD on city streets. For a few months, the software would switch from a AI based package on city streets, to a more programmatic packaged developed 4 years ago that was NoA.

 

[uscbucsfan]

It's ALL beta. Most people use the terms interchangeably, but @uscbucsfan makes a difference. The reference to city streets is just a hangover from the old NoA days. As Tesla ended last year, they were working on a release that replaced the NoA on highways software with the software that was FSD on city streets. For a few months, the software would switch from a AI based package on city streets, to a more programmatic packaged developed 4 years ago that was NoA.

Show us where they ended it.

Currently they are still delivering FSD to people, which is more than EAP as it stops for redlights and stop signs, but not FSD Beta. This is provable. It's listed on their website.

You haven't provided anything saying Beta has ended except a teslarati article misquoting Elon. I posted his quote.

For the last time, no one has said FSD Beta has ended to this point.

 

[kapil.varshney]

I am asking again. I picked up MYLR today and FSD started from today and will end on Oct 18. Will the clock reset after the software update as I dont have FSD.

 

[fasteddie7]

I am asking again. I picked up MYLR today and FSD started from today and will end on Oct 18. Will the clock reset after the software update as I dont have FSD.

No. You have stop sign and light control and that is part of the trial as it is what Tesla considers full self drive capability. If you are HW4 and want to opt into the beta, you will have to hope the 11.4.x track merges with current base firmware before your trial runs out.

 

[JulienW]

I am asking again. I picked up MYLR today and FSD started from today and will end on Oct 18. Will the clock reset after the software update as I dont have FSD.

Just to add to what fasteddie7 said. You get a free test of the FSD Capability package. FSD Beta while it has the same name is not included and is not the same thing. You must have FSD Capability to request access to FSD Beta. But as of now HW4 is not compatible with FSD Beta (10.3.6) that is offered to you at this time. So as of now only people who buy a Model 3 (still has HW3) can get to FSD Beta with the FSD Capability package.

No doubt Tesla makes it confusing with their nomenclature and many conflate FSD Capability and FSD Beta.

 

[ewoodrick]

Show us where they ended it.

Currently they are still delivering FSD to people, which is more than EAP as it stops for redlights and stop signs, but not FSD Beta. This is provable. It's listed on their website.

You haven't provided anything saying Beta has ended except a teslarati article misquoting Elon. I posted his quote.

For the last time, no one has said FSD Beta has ended to this point.

Wow, you just can't draw any conclusions. You just have to create conspiracies instead.

BETA is OPEN to EVERYONE is the same as the CLOSED BETA IS OVER. Use all the convoluted logic that you want. But it is open to everyone, the only issue is the mess with the forked branches of code.

 

[JB47394]

BETA is OPEN to EVERYONE is the same as the CLOSED BETA IS OVER.

But it's not the same as saying that the beta test is over. An open beta test remains a beta test. Tesla can yank that software at any time and we would have no legal recourse to claim damages because we don't own the software. It is not part of the FSD product that we bought or subscribed to.

 

[ewoodrick]

But it's not the same as saying that the beta test is over. An open beta test remains a beta test. Tesla can yank that software at any time and we would have no legal recourse to claim damages because we don't own the software. It is not part of the FSD product that we bought or subscribed to.

OMG, the nitpickers.

FSD IS ONLY IN BETA RIGHT NOW.
EVERYONE IS THAT IS USING FSD RIGHT NOW IS USING A BETA VERSION.
THERE IS NO LIMITED ACCESS BETA PROGRAM RIGHT NOW (other than the one created 5 years ago)

THE BETA TEST IS NOT OVER.

Yes, Tesla could remove or disable the software from our vehicles.

THERE IS NO deliverable FSD product RIGHT NOW. It's all a beta.

 

[ewoodrick]

But it's not the same as saying that the beta test is over. An open beta test remains a beta test. Tesla can yank that software at any time and we would have no legal recourse to claim damages because we don't own the software. It is not part of the FSD product that we bought or subscribed to.

This thread is based on the premise that @uscbucsfan purports that the limited access FSD program created a year or two ago and closed at the end of the last year is not closed. They still thinks that it exists and that Tesla is purposefully keeping people out of it. To the point where @uscbucsfan says that there's a FSD and FSD Beta progam.


It has nothing to do with "Is it in beta"

 

[fasteddie7]

OMG, the nitpickers.

FSD IS ONLY IN BETA RIGHT NOW.
EVERYONE IS THAT IS USING FSD RIGHT NOW IS USING A BETA VERSION.
THERE IS NO LIMITED ACCESS BETA PROGRAM RIGHT NOW (other than the one created 5 years ago)
THERE IS NO deliverable FSD product RIGHT NOW. It's all a beta.

I think the confusion is because there is still a product that exists between FSDb and EAP, which is what the $15k currently buys you, (well $9k since EAP is $6k) which includes stop sign and light control and autosteer on city streets someday, that anyone who paid or subscribed can access regardless of software version. In my mind, whether I'm right or wrong, that is what I consider the FSD package even though it's just EAP with stop signs and lights, and the beta is what you opt into to get to experience the future of the software.