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I'm In Seattle And As a Die Hard Tesla Fan, I am Not Sold On FSD Beta Experience. (Been On Beta since it rolled out to Public). Thoughts?

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#21
momo3605 said:
you can't assume all of that unearned revenue was from FSD. Tesla doesn't make any of that public. What we DO know is how many early adopters bought teslas in 2016 and 2017 with HW 2.0 and the option to purchase FSD. That's public. That was 180k cars.

Take rate of FSD is less of an exact science, but if you look at surveys done over the years, it was around 10% Survey Reveals Tesla's Full Self-Driving Take Rate Is Declining (insideevs.com) (you can use 12% if you want to be pedantic)

In case you forgot, tesla was still working through EAP features during that time. autosteer was barely working, there was no NoA or summon either. Much of that unrealized revenue may have been from enhanced AP
Click to expand...
Actually we have a lot of information including exact take rates from a hacked and released db of cars. Search and you will find.

The one you quote is obviously a LOT more unreliable - being a self selected sample.

BTW, aren’t those people getting h/w upgrades. At least 30 of them have even got FSD beta.

Lowchrg said:
Original Title:

FSD’s earliest adopters find themselves again deprioritized and forgotten​


Wiki Content:
----------------------------
Camera Retrofit and FSD Beta rollout tracker:
docs.google.com

AP2.0 Camera Upgrade Rollout Status

Upgrade Status AP2.0 to AP2.5 Camera Upgrade Status Tracker, original spreadsheet layout by @jebinc of TMC.,Sidenote: for anyone who received a camera upgrade invite, the service option will be in the new place at the top (same as when you get an alert) and if you’ve created a ticket already and...
docs.google.com docs.google.com

Camera PN Tracker:
docs.google.com

Tesla cameras retrofit

Sheet1 1120520-00-B MODEL S,Art Vandelay,Mardak,dpilone,appleguru,fcastrillo86,jimgardner99,sevenout,technoz,mach.89,valem,topgun66,shateam,saphira,karnold,garyrem,tarzan,mastruck try1,mastruck try2,hairdawgg INLINE TRIPLE CAM,1120520-00-B,1120520-00-B,1120520-00-B,1120520-00-B,1120520-00-B,1089...
docs.google.com docs.google.com

Model S Correct Camera Parts:
INLINE TRIPLE CAM, S/X/3 1120520-00-B
LAMP ASY, SIDE REPEATER CAMERA, RH 1642011-00-A
LAMP ASY, SIDE REPEATER CAMERA, LH 1642010-00-A
APPLIQUE,MS,B PLR,RH ASSY 1496709-S0-B (Note: There are several different PNs and revisions that are valid for this part)
APPLIQUE,MS,B PLR,LH ASSY 1496707-S0-B (Note: There are several different PNs and revisions that are valid for this part)

Model X Correct Camera Parts:
INLINE TRIPLE CAM, S/X/3 1120520-00-B
LAMP ASY, SIDE REPEATER CAMERA, RH 1642011-00-A
LAMP ASY, SIDE REPEATER CAMERA, LH 1642010-00-A


Original Post:
----------------------------
Cue the post about the guy whining that he didn’t get FSD Beta /sarcasm

As some of you may or may not know, the FSD Beta has been continuing to roll out to all Tesla vehicle types with FSD and 100 scores now including refresh S EXCEPT for the following vehicles:

- July 2017 and earlier build date Model S w/ AP2.0 hardware at delivery
- July 2017 and earlier build date Model X w/ AP2.0 hardware at delivery

These vehicles also featured MCU1 at delivery, however Tesla provides an official upgrade pathway to MCU2 and recommends this. For that reason I’m not going to speak on the MCU requirements for FSD Beta and other undelivered features for MCU1 cars but more about the AP2.0 hardware (cameras, radar, redundant electronics?) that was advertised as fully capable of FSD with no upgrade pathway to AP2.5. This is further corroborated by gaining access to the safety score on these vehicles. MCU1 was excluded from the “button” software entirely. MCU2 upgraded and FSD enabled July 2017 and earlier AP2.0 cars got the button and have been working on their scores for going on close to a month now.

There are currently many post-July 2017 AP2.5 S and X with FSD Beta access that upgraded from MCU1 to MCU2 so this confirms the current stipulation to the rollout is specifically AP2.0 hardware and NOT that MCU1 was in the vehicle at time of delivery.

To my knowledge, at this time there is ZERO of the earliest AP2.0 FSD adopting vehicles with the beta access regardless of following all the rules and upgrades that Tesla recommends to stay up to date. I stuck it out and was very excited to finally see something come to fruition after 4 years of waiting on my “investment” but now I’m feeling even more slighted than ever that I may never see FSD during my ownership.

I hope that they’re working on this for 10.3 next Friday and that this post becomes complete irrelevant and I’m a moron but I felt it was necessary to bring attention to this and hope I don’t get slammed too hard. Tesla’s treatment of early adopters who helped get them where they are has been disheartening to say the least. I fully admit I am a bit salty when I see someone who subscribed last month for $199 and got beta access when some have paid tens of thousands for FSD and MCU2 upgrades years ago with almost nothing to show for it at this point.

Thank you for coming to my rant
Click to expand...
 
#22
EVNow said:
So says someone who joined in Aug, 2022. Have you been following Tesla since 2010 ? If not, you have no idea what you are talking about.

Afterall even in 2019 Q1, Elon was trying to sell to Apple to save Tesla from bankruptcy. Tesla got saved only because of a deal with Fiat.

There is a reason why Tesla is the first successful Auto startup in the Us in 75 years ! Its damn difficult to start a new company in such a capital intensive industry.
Click to expand...
(moderator edit) Unless you worked for Tesla during the early years you really have no factual data as to how much income was gleaned from FSD or the state of finances at Tesla. You only know what you read. Don’t forget Musk is an excellent showman. He needed massive investment for what he wanted to do. But to say they almost went bankrupt cannot be proven unless you have the finance books. The reason he ultimately succeeded was he had the right product at the right time, he had a band of loyal followers, people were embracing the non-polluting idealism, gas prices were rising, etc. I can have an opinion that they would have survived but you cannot prove I am wrong.
 
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#23
I love the goofy 'Smart' Summon, the self-parking that kinda works, the lane changing is the best blind-spot alternative for highway driving, the selective-use of FSD Beta as a tester and a kid-at-heart

Honestly, for me.. it's being on that starting-edge of something that will eventually be quite normal. I first played computer games in the late-70s, and journeyed through the genre of C-64 and Amiga gaming in the 80s.. and with joy and imagination it was AMAZING. That's kinda how I feel about assisted driving. Most don't have the patience or joy of working through it's childhood stages, but I for one absolutely love it. It's not reliable or smart, scares everyone here in Colorado Springs (my wife despises it when I've tried to use it) - but some of my friends enjoy it just like me: watching it's silly choices, steady improvements, and having a good laugh =)

It'll get there. And if it's alright with you to spend for the subscription now-and-then to see where things are, have fun with it! That's how I feel.. =)
 
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#24
jakimo said:
I love the goofy 'Smart' Summon, the self-parking that kinda works, the lane changing is the best blind-spot alternative for highway driving, the selective-use of FSD Beta as a tester and a kid-at-heart

Honestly, for me.. it's being on that starting-edge of something that will eventually be quite normal. I first played computer games in the late-70s, and journeyed through the genre of C-64 and Amiga gaming in the 80s.. and with joy and imagination it was AMAZING. That's kinda how I feel about assisted driving. Most don't have the patience or joy of working through it's childhood stages, but I for one absolutely love it. It's not reliable or smart, scares everyone here in Colorado Springs (my wife despises it when I've tried to use it) - but some of my friends enjoy it just like me: watching it's silly choices, steady improvements, and having a good laugh =)

It'll get there. And if it's alright with you to spend for the subscription now-and-then to see where things are, have fun with it! That's how I feel.. =)
Click to expand...
Big difference between playing computer games and have the car assist you with driving. It’s called fatalities.
 
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#29
BritneySpears said:
FSD doesn’t exist. There is only autopilot, FSDb, and FSD capability. I keep having to explain it to non-Tesla people in conversation interested in it and reading reviews and all the reviews about “I have fsd”, etc…
Click to expand...
There is not any FSD beta. Just because Tesla incorrectly calls it a beta (it's not even Alpha quality yet) doesn't make it a beta. But that said, I think it's fair to say those who say they have FSD mean they have what Tesla calls the FSD beta.
 
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#30
bradtem said:
There is not any FSD beta. Just because Tesla incorrectly calls it a beta (it's not even Alpha quality yet) doesn't make it a beta. But that said, I think it's fair to say those who say they have FSD mean they have what Tesla calls the FSD beta.
Click to expand...
Yes, agree. It’s “FSD beta” for sure. I was responding to Jim Perkins above because he’s a bot and I’m stupid enough to respond :)
 
#31
The group think is FSD BETA MEANS it’s not the real FDS BETA specified clearly. You can turn off the red light stop sensor, but that doesn’t mean it’s the real CITY STREET beta. This was pointed out to me by a member who sounds like he’s got a creditable opinion. Clearly as in many places including a font size increase or zoom functionality the user interface obfuscates details for people like me who don’t read the fine print first. I work at an intuitive level checking things out to see if the way they work makes sense. I figure their are too many software configuration issues and poor cameras for the beta to work really well, although it shines in a couple of places. Their also may be sensor and camera interaction side effects and possibly why the newer models will have sensors removed? That’s what beta means, right? I was looking forward to something on the whole that really worked all together integrated instead of separate pieces of functionality that shined, which I found. Sometimes you can get caught up in all whining and forget about how great the technology right in front of you is. Sometimes insanely great products lead to insanely big expectations. TESLA technology is a process of incremental improvement and removal of redundancy as I’ve seen it play out at SpaceX and TESLA Vehicles.
 
#32
Jim Perkins said:
The group think is FSD BETA MEANS it’s not the real FDS BETA specified clearly. You can turn off the red light stop sensor, but that doesn’t mean it’s the real CITY STREET beta. This was pointed out to me by a member who sounds like he’s got a creditable opinion. Clearly as in many places including a font size increase or zoom functionality the user interface obfuscates details for people like me who don’t read the fine print first. I work at an intuitive level checking things out to see if the way they work makes sense. I figure their are too many software configuration issues and poor cameras for the beta to work really well, although it shines in a couple of places. Their also may be sensor and camera interaction side effects and possibly why the newer models will have sensors removed? That’s what beta means, right? I was looking forward to something on the whole that really worked all together integrated instead of separate pieces of functionality that shined, which I found. Sometimes you can get caught up in all whining and forget about how great the technology right in front of you is. Sometimes insanely great products lead to insanely big expectations. TESLA technology is a process of incremental improvement and removal of redundancy as I’ve seen it play out at SpaceX and TESLA Vehicles.
Click to expand...
It is not a beta. A beta is a near-release product which first was an alpha near-release product. It needs a small number of bug fixes, generally no new features and while not ready for production is close. Yes, Tesla's FSD prototype has one of the attributes of a beta -- being let out to customers prior to release who report bugs and test new upates -- but only that one, and it's not enough.
 
#34
The product, levels of functionality and driver human factors integration has yet to be thought out. Several complex areas like Rehearsal strategies by operator/driver and expected outcome scenarios haven’t been born yet. A good example is merge lane dynamics and so called phantom braking which is a bad term. The car is doing what it should be doing in all these cases faster than the drivers understanding of the stimuli in play. What adds the danger to driving is not only your behavior, but now your behavior is interrupted when autonomous driving behavior stops and alarms your consciousness back into fully human driving.
Now that I know the extent of the cars autonomy and I can plan my driving moves ahead of time(rehearsal strategy). The car is a dream to drive then. When it enters its autonomy zones I turn on the autopilot. Approaching and leaving controlled drive zones I’m in control. Once you get over the “set it and forget it” novice thinking, its dream, but not a fully autonomous one.
 
#38
bradtem said:
People keep calling it an FSD investigation. Why?
Click to expand...
  • Tesla is under criminal investigation in the United States over claims that the company’s electric vehicles can drive themselves.
  • The U.S. Department of Justice launched the previously undisclosed probe last year following more than a dozen crashes, some of them fatal, involving Tesla’s, Driver Assistance System Autopilot, which was activated during accidents. What TESLA calls FSD "Full Self-Driving Capability".
  • Hence, “People keep calling it an FSD investigation.“
Why investigate TESLA? The company is introducing technology drivers should already been familiar with anyway prior to purchase. Most people forget FSD is a work in progress and will only get better by learning from its failures. That how neural nets learn in many applications, trial and error, over and over.
 
#39
Jim Perkins said:
  • Tesla is under criminal investigation in the United States over claims that the company’s electric vehicles can drive themselves.
  • The U.S. Department of Justice launched the previously undisclosed probe last year following more than a dozen crashes, some of them fatal, involving Tesla’s, Driver Assistance System Autopilot, which was activated during accidents. What TESLA calls FSD "Full Self-Driving Capability".
  • Hence, “People keep calling it an FSD investigation.“
Why investigate TESLA? The company is introducing technology drivers should already been familiar with anyway prior to purchase. Most people forget FSD is a work in progress and will only get better by learning from its failures. That how neural nets learn in many applications, trial and error, over and over.
Click to expand...
That phrase you quote is not in the article cited. Where do you pull it from?
 
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