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Impacts on ICE Range

Discussion in 'Cars and Transportation' started by Rumbles, May 8, 2012.

  1. Rumbles

    Rumbles Sig #540

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    #1 Rumbles, May 8, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: May 8, 2012
    [mod note: Moved out of the Model S forum. -b.]

    I am curious if ICE vehicles are as sensitive to speed, acceleration, grade, windows, AC, etc when it comes to range. I can see no reason why they wouldn't be (leaving aside cabin heating, of course). Anyone know (or care to speculate)?
     
  2. dsm363

    dsm363 Roadster + Sig Model S

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    They should be no difference. Main difference is that it's much easier and quicker to refuel an ICE so people aren't as concerned.
     
  3. crzyskl

    crzyskl P6398

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    You did not mention weather, but for my 2011 Prius I get close to ~660-690 miles per fill-up in spring/summer/early fall and down to ~550 miles in the winter (sub 40 degree weather). My old 2005 Scion xB (I LOVED that car, RIP) was very sensitive to speed, highway driving would effect range negatively (probably do to the body shape).
     
  4. GSP

    GSP Member

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    Ambient temperature should have a smaller effect on ICEs. Cold weather can reduce powertrain efficiency slightly, but the gas tank still contains the same available energy. Batteries will not have as much energy available when cold.

    As mentioned, the heat and defroster are almost free on ICEs, except for the power to run the fan and RWD. This will also reduce the effect of cold weather on range, compared to EVs.

    GSP
     
  5. daniel

    daniel Active Member

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    The difference is that, with gas stations so abundant, with ICE cars we speak of mpg rather than range. And yes, as we all know, mpg is drastically affected by speed, driving style, windows (open or closed), etc. With my Roadster (and far more, with my Xebra) I need to know how far it will go because recharging is slow and might not be available. With the stinker, I know I can always fill up anywhere, so I don't think about range. I fill up when it gets low, and there's always a gas station. But I chose the Prius because it gets better mpg, and I'm aware that mpg (and the unimportant range number) are affected by how I drive. It just matters less when filling up is so easy. On a long, exhausting trip I'm willing to burn more gas in order to cut an hour from my driving time. In an EV I might have to slow down just to make it to my destination.

    So, yes, all those things affect range in an ICE vehicle. It's just a much less important number.
     
  6. jerry33

    jerry33 S85 - VIN:P05130 - 3/2/13

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    Yes, it does. The thing is that 99.9% of ICE drivers never know because they don't keep a log and their car doesn't tell them. When they get a car that has decent instrumentation they are often surprised (and typically angry as well).

    - speed: aerodynamic resistance goes up as the square of the speed but the power demand goes up as the cube of the speed.

    - acceleration: This is the area under the curve. If you plot Y as speed and X as distance (or time) the steeper the slope is the more area is required. Area is energy use.

    - grade: Same as acceleration.

    - windows: Depends on the rest of the car's aerodynamics.

    - AC: Depends on the type of A/C. Electric variable speed scroll compressor or belt driven piston compressor.

    - Ambient temperature: ICE cars lose about 25% mpg when the temperature is around zero. At -30 they lose a lot more than that.

    ICE or EV doesn't matter to any of these items. It's just that the EV driver is more aware.
     
  7. VolkerP

    VolkerP EU Model S P-37

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    #7 VolkerP, May 10, 2012
    Last edited: May 10, 2012
    On serious mountain driving (e.g. mountain passes in the alps), ICE can suffer heavy drop in power output from thinner air. Plus, there is no regen back down. Dragon took his Green Lightning to 999 km ideal range that way! Read here:

     

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