2022. only 6000km so basically brand new. Roads were dry. Car was precondition on charger before I left. was driving 120.
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For prospective EV buyers: "How much range will I actually get?"
- Thread starter 3sr+buyer
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A range of less than 250 km in -10C weather, driving at 120 kph, with only 6000 km on the odometer.
By how much charge would you have missed the cottage?
That's the point the end user shouldn't have to do all of that to determine how much range they would get. Granted it is a reality but the point is its nowhere near accurate. I'm a prime example of I went with SR+ and saw the rated and knocked off some range for realism and it's still far far below that. If it's rated at 270-310 depending on what source you check I shouldn't be below 50% batter driving 30 miles a day for 4 days.
All the fiddling with battery degradation, cold weather, preheating, climate temperature, seat temperature ect is nonsense for large adoption of EV. ICE drivers or most of them think hey I have a 19 gal tank and get on average 20 miles to the gallon (which isn't actually correct on the surface) I can drive for a week or week and a half without filling up. The convenience of charging is cool and worth it but when you start doing longer drivers it becomes a hindrance.
Again we are talking about NEW prospective buyers not current ones and why the range is a problem, the range amount itself isn't a problem if it wasn't a bunch of figuring out to know your actual range.
Depends on what your winter is like, what your driving habits are like, and what your use of HVAC is like.
This winter, I am still getting close to or better than the rated economy and range, although slightly worse than in warmer drier weather. But lead-footed drivers who turn the heat very high in very cold weather while driving through slush will probably get much worse economy and range (although if they are lead-footed generally, they will still get poor economy and range every season).
boriszima
Member
I got 2018 LR AWD, maybe i saw 300 miles once at 100%, but i rarely charge up to it. Now just like yourself, 100% charge is about 270 miles. The farthest I driven on one charge was about 236 miles one way with efficiency of 252Wh/mi and i got to the supercharge at 16 miles left over. This is the farthest i am willing to drive on one chare, wont do it again. In other words, 250 miles is a range for my type of driving here in SoCal. I am good with it since here we have many superchargers along the way, no an issue.
Exactly! Why do I have to learn new things? I don't want to have to fiddle with plugging in and out every day for 5 secs. I want to go to the gas station once a week, and stand there holding that dirty smelly fuel pump handle for 3 mins in the fridgid cold. I'm used to it. It's not fiddly. It's always the same. Always cold, always dirty, always smelly, but never fiddly! Okay, maybe it is a little fiddly when I'm trying to top off the tank, and damaging the vapor collector.
Okay, that was sarcasm. The point is, driving an EV does require learning some new things. We had a lot to learn when we first started driving a car, but that was so long ago, we've forgotten! We've become accustomed to it. Now, we have to break a few old habits and learn a few new ones. That's the way of it. Just like I had to stop using the Crackberry and start using an iPhone. What?!? No keypad?
The thing is, we've already learned a lot of the new habits. The car is more like a smartphone. It likes to be plugged in at night, like your smartphone. We know our smartphone doesn't like the cold, the car doesn't either! Heck, we used to watch those old Sears Diehard ads, so we already know that batteries don't like the cold. It was fiddly then, as it is now. We know that smartphones slow their charge rate as they get full. The EV does that too! Smartphones last longer if we don't charge them all the way up every day. Who knew? EVs are the same way! We already know so much about how to live with an EV.
As far as fiddling with preheating, climate controls, seat temps; we do that in our ICE as well, if you've got a fairly modern one. Those were features, as not every ICE has the ability to remotely preheat, and adjust all the climate settings. The fact is, you don't have to do any of that, but if you are concerned with range, then those are some of the things you can concern yourself with. If you don't want to fiddle with things or learn new things, or care about range, then just drive the car normally, and charge as necessary. No one is forcing anyone to change their habits, but they might want to learn some new ones. Totally up to them.
Personally, I have no issue with cold weather range. In my old ICE, it took 5+ mins to start getting any heat out of the car, and even then, it wasn't exactly hot. I'd turn on the seat heater and steering wheel heater. It takes 10mins to get where i"m going, so it wasn't like I got much heat out of the ICE before I got to my destination. In fact, I just kept my winter coat and hat on, because, it took 5+mins before the car would start to warm up. In order to match that, I'd have to leave the heat off in my Tesla for half my trip, and when I do that, I get the EPA rating for range, since I am driving surface roads between 45 and 55mph. For me, winter range is pretty much like summer range.
Now, on longer trips than 10mins, if I set my thermostat for 64F at a fan speed of 3, I barely use more energy than the car expects. I get great winter range. Why should I set it any higher? I've got a seat heater, a steering wheel heater, my winter coat on. It's plenty warm.
Here. I drove 133.6miles to the ski resort and back, mostly 55+mph, but a 30mile stretch at 80mph. I used 45.2% SOC for 133.6miles. That's 295miles of estimated range. I was about 5% below EPA-rating. This was mostly at temps below freezing, but above freezing at the end of day. The thing is, I didn't use any heat, since I was dressed in my ski gear. I used the seat heater and a heated steering wheel.
How is winter driving different than summer driving? Mostly HVAC. If you don't need heat, or excessive amounts of heat, then winter range is pretty much the same. At least it is for me. We know that batteries are sensitive to heat, so just be sensible about the usage of the HVAC. How different is that to people trying to save gas by minimizing the use of the AC in an ICE? It's the same amount of fiddlyness. Fiddle long enough, and it'll become second nature, a habit, and you'll wonder at how it ever was an issue.
We're human, we learn, we adapt, and we kick and scream the whole time while learning and adapting.
brainhouston
Active Member
another big issue besides decreased range is decreased charging rate as u getting higher SOC
i just did a road trip n realized how painful it is to charge from 70-90+%...
at 70 soc it was doing 50kW with eta of 20min (set to 95%), i reached 95% after 40min with like 14kW rate...
i know normally u don't need to go high but my car has a range of about 120mi in winter n it was a 90mi stretch so i needed that buffer to feel safe
ICE cars don't have this issue, u fill up at the same rate of how fast nozzle dispenses
so if EVs only charge fast till 70% it further reduces the 'real' range...
i just did a road trip n realized how painful it is to charge from 70-90+%...
at 70 soc it was doing 50kW with eta of 20min (set to 95%), i reached 95% after 40min with like 14kW rate...
i know normally u don't need to go high but my car has a range of about 120mi in winter n it was a 90mi stretch so i needed that buffer to feel safe
ICE cars don't have this issue, u fill up at the same rate of how fast nozzle dispenses
so if EVs only charge fast till 70% it further reduces the 'real' range...
Even for a long trip? That seems *very* low. I understand if you're making lots of short drives (e.g. retail store hopping), but one long trip shouldn't cut your range in half or less.
brainhouston
Active Member
Well, 120 safe miles. I don't feel safe going below 20% in winter. Road closures are common here n u could always run into other issues like flat tire or such
I used 50% in 90mi so 90-20% is roughly 120mi. But yeah 100-10 would get me 160ish...
I used 50% in 90mi so 90-20% is roughly 120mi. But yeah 100-10 would get me 160ish...
That's not entirely the "real" range though. The key with range is how far you can go _before_ you have to fast charge.
To KenC's point about learning, that fact about fast charging is, at its simplest, a single data point: the percentage at which you should stop charging. If you have to charge higher, it's an infrastructural issue (I've had such an issue), and those occasions should diminish over time.
My Kona's normal stop percentage is 71%. It gets (even) slow(er) at 71%, dropping from 60kW to 40kW, so barring infrastructure limitations, that's when I'd leave.
(Although, on vacation this year I found that when charging on a 50kW (125A) DCFC, it maintained 50kW to the low 80s%.)
My office is circa 150 miles away from my home.
I go there once a week and it is pure motorway (limited to 70 mph) drive. I always have it on AP at 72...
It takes under 50% of my battery to get there in summer and roughly 55% to get there if it's winter in UK (read 5 - 10 in Celsius, damp roads).
If there is headwind or rain, it can take up to 60% for the same journey.
I always have 20-20.5 C as cabin temperature and I do not precondition my car.. well only warming cabin a bit if very cold.
I am with M3 LR 2022 edition, ho heat pump, on 18' Aero, but caps removed.
I go there once a week and it is pure motorway (limited to 70 mph) drive. I always have it on AP at 72...
It takes under 50% of my battery to get there in summer and roughly 55% to get there if it's winter in UK (read 5 - 10 in Celsius, damp roads).
If there is headwind or rain, it can take up to 60% for the same journey.
I always have 20-20.5 C as cabin temperature and I do not precondition my car.. well only warming cabin a bit if very cold.
I am with M3 LR 2022 edition, ho heat pump, on 18' Aero, but caps removed.
Ragarding SCs and charging, there was really good video with Model 3 (performance I think) and V3 super charger.
It takes 26 minutes to charge from 10% to 80%, another 10 minutes to get from 80% to 90% and then from 90% to 100% I think 20 mins will not be enough.
It is always better to charge to max to 80%, drive and charge again.
If you look at Bjorn Nyland and his 1000 km challenges with all EVs, it's the tactic he uses yo optimise runs to be fastest. Charge only how much you need at lowest % as charge rate is best
It takes 26 minutes to charge from 10% to 80%, another 10 minutes to get from 80% to 90% and then from 90% to 100% I think 20 mins will not be enough.
It is always better to charge to max to 80%, drive and charge again.
If you look at Bjorn Nyland and his 1000 km challenges with all EVs, it's the tactic he uses yo optimise runs to be fastest. Charge only how much you need at lowest % as charge rate is best
It does seem low. However, it's the reality for some people. With my vehicle I drove an hour away to a art exhibit which was 64.2 miles away. At 86% starting charge. I ended my trip with 42% charge left. So I used 44% of the battery for 64 miles if given the same conditions and constants 128 miles is 88% of my battery. On that particular day it was slightly wet on the ground with roughly 8-10mph wind. Using seat heaters at 2 notches and climate set to 72. The weather outside was in the high 40s.
On the same subject - South Korea fines Tesla $2.2 million for allegedly exaggerating driving range of EVs:
www.cnbc.com
- South Korea’s antitrust regulator said it would impose a 2.85 billion won ($2.2 million) fine on Tesla for failing to tell its customers about the shorter driving range of its electric vehicles in low temperatures.
- The driving range of the U.S. EV manufacturer’s cars plunge in cold weather by up to 50.5% versus how they are advertised online, the KFTC said in a statement on Tuesday.
South Korea fines Tesla $2.2 million for allegedly exaggerating driving range of EVs
The driving range of the EV manufacturer's cars plunge in cold weather by up to 50.5% versus how they are advertised online, Korea's antitrust regulator said.
www.cnbc.com
New AWD M3 owner here and this is exactly what I did from the beginning. One month into ownership.
Seems strange. How is Tesla advertising their EVs any different than Kia or Hyundai in S Korea?On the same subject - South Korea fines Tesla $2.2 million for allegedly exaggerating driving range of EVs:
- South Korea’s antitrust regulator said it would impose a 2.85 billion won ($2.2 million) fine on Tesla for failing to tell its customers about the shorter driving range of its electric vehicles in low temperatures.
- The driving range of the U.S. EV manufacturer’s cars plunge in cold weather by up to 50.5% versus how they are advertised online, the KFTC said in a statement on Tuesday.
South Korea fines Tesla $2.2 million for allegedly exaggerating driving range of EVs
The driving range of the EV manufacturer's cars plunge in cold weather by up to 50.5% versus how they are advertised online, Korea's antitrust regulator said.
Not really.
Kinda right on the nose.
No idea. I've never been to SK, nor remotely aware of their advertising norms and practices.
Perhaps someone here is from SK and can elucidate, or cares enough to research the subject matter?
I do remember reading that Norway, Germany, and California were in the process of slapping Tesla for false advertising of the FSD product.
Tesla does have a history of making half-true claims about many subjects favorable to the brand, and suppressing disclosures and suing folks for sharing any facts that may throw a shade on the brand. It's a fairly litigious and truth-averse company.
Or maybe not.
Get the facts, share them, we will all learn something.
Offering conspiracy theories isn't it.
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