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In the future when my battery needs replacement, will they use the new tech?
- Thread starter matter1968
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If you mean would Tesla provide a replacement battery with newer cells, battery chemistry, no. If the Tesla high voltage battery pack fails, while covered by the warranty Tesla could provide a new battery pack of the same design as the original pack but in all probability would provide a refurbished battery pack if one is available with at least the same capacity as the battery being replaced. Beyond the warranty period the cost of the battery replacement will probably favor replacing the vehicle. By then you will want a newer vehicle with all of the latest technology and features.
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As an ex-Prius driver, back when the cars were getting seriously popular in the 2009 time frame, there were all sorts of nay-sayers around stating that it'd be upwards of $7000 for a new battery, they weren't going to last all that long, and all sorts of FUD.
My daughter's driving the thing these days and the traction battery, while a little worn, is still doing fine. And a quick check online shows that Walmart, of all places, will sell a new one for $1500.
I figure that by the time 2018 M3's start having failed batteries due to wear-out, the prices will drop as more manufacturers come on-line.
My daughter's driving the thing these days and the traction battery, while a little worn, is still doing fine. And a quick check online shows that Walmart, of all places, will sell a new one for $1500.
I figure that by the time 2018 M3's start having failed batteries due to wear-out, the prices will drop as more manufacturers come on-line.
The DIY ease of the Prius and Toyota hybrid drive systems makes it practical to keep these for literal decades for very little money.
You're right, it's a great advancement in replacement market products.
With so many Y's and 3's on the road, the potential market for something like this is literally in the billions. That gap in the market cannot be ignored. There is simply too much profit to gain.
Also, once solid state becomes mainstream, a replacement SSB could spell a huge range and performance increase on an old Tesla.
It's relatively early days in mainstream EV's. I am optimistic that DIY and aftermarket support will grow with options in batteries and software that we have not considered yet. Not enough Teslas have "aged out" to make the market viable yet. But literally hundreds of millions of vehicle owners will be looking at these options in a decade or two. I've yet to see a multi-billion dollar market ignored...
Yes, assuming 3 and Y batteries actually fail very often.
Is this something we have data on?
If in the average case the battery still has, say, 60% health after 400k miles then the economics may not support replacement. The labor costs would be high and the residual value of the vehicle is a short range commuter may be higher. It's feasible that the vast majority of batteries outlast the whole rest of the vehicle.
Will be very interesting to see.
Who knows what will be available in 7 years or more. We can just speculate. Based on the experience with the first Model S built in 2012/13/14, there is no upgrade. Tesla really discourages people from replacing their old batteries. They do offer it, but make it so expensive that it makes little sense. Technically you can fit a new 100 battery pack on one of these old cars, but I believe the old car's coolant system and electrical system is a good match for the new batteries.
I see it like with desktop computers. You can't use an old PC from 8 years ago and try to fit a current CPU into it. All the other components are not up for the task. Modular design doesn't mean old components work well or at all with new ones. I plan on keep my cars for 5 to 7 years and then just get a new one. Development and improvements are happening in every aspect, not just the battery.
I see it like with desktop computers. You can't use an old PC from 8 years ago and try to fit a current CPU into it. All the other components are not up for the task. Modular design doesn't mean old components work well or at all with new ones. I plan on keep my cars for 5 to 7 years and then just get a new one. Development and improvements are happening in every aspect, not just the battery.
Except there is an entire multi-billion dollar industry in replacement memory, cpu, graphics chip upgrades, cooling systems, solid state replacement drives, screens, chassis, and every other upgrade for PC's and Macs that are decades old.
*PC's are one of the most upgradeable products you can buy. So much so, many build their own PC's from scratch- there is an entire industry based on that.
The majority of Teslas, and ev market in general, is new. The market, nor technology, doesn't exist yet. But it will.
The few instances where the need was there - with low range ev's (BMW i3 and Nissan Leaf) there became replacement battery shops that swapped out batteries with newer ones that gave more range than new.
Even though those were lower priced, very small production numbers, it was still viable to replace batteries to owners. In those instances, a full battery replacement only took several hours.
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No one can predict the future, so the question really has no definite answer. All we can do is wait and see. The one thing Tesla has that others don't, is numbers. I wouldn't be surprised if someone, maybe not Tesla, will produce a budget friendly replacement battery option down the road. But then again, I'm still waiting for the flying cars that were promised to me back in the 60's.
And the numbers (number of Model 3 and Y) on the road is critical to the economics of this.
I don’t think we’re really going to find out until substantially more 3/Y are out of warranty. All of them are within their 8 years and most are still within their 120,000 (or 100k) mile coverage.
I don’t think we’re really going to find out until substantially more 3/Y are out of warranty. All of them are within their 8 years and most are still within their 120,000 (or 100k) mile coverage.
larger capacity, in the same size, lighter and cheaper. It was not possible 10 yrs ago but now it is. That is the definition of new tech.
The question "will they..." is a question of conjecture.
The aftermarket is simply non-existent. Teslas are simply too new.
Once the same factors come into play and NEW TECH like solid state batteries become viable, yes options will open up.
I'm excited for that, and new life for old ev's may be much more dynamic than the massive ICE aftermarket and support industry.
agree, it will (just as with ICE vehicles) decade or two down the road but the interest is there and with literally millions of Teslas on the road, it only makes sense.
Just jumping in on the party.
Take Priuses: In San Francisco, where there's tons of Priuses being used as taxis and whatnot, there's a whole cottage industry working on the cars, replacing batteries (they'll actually come to your door!) and so on. Some of them advertise OEM battery modules.
Now, look at Teslas: There's already third-party battery refurbishment companies charging (one article I just found at electrek.co) for 75% less than Tesla's charge; and there's other companies advertising their services in this regard.
Back when I owned a VW bug, sure, one could hand it off to VW to get the engine bored; but one could also go to any number of third-party shops that would turn the crankshaft, fix the block, and re-surface the head. Given time and inventive types, I imagine getting replacement batteries is simply not going to be a big deal; same with getting the motors repaired.
There might be an issue with interfacing a new BMS system with the car's existing electronics. But that mainly depends upon Tesla being open with their specifications.. and I haven't heard that they're closed in this regard.
Take Priuses: In San Francisco, where there's tons of Priuses being used as taxis and whatnot, there's a whole cottage industry working on the cars, replacing batteries (they'll actually come to your door!) and so on. Some of them advertise OEM battery modules.
Now, look at Teslas: There's already third-party battery refurbishment companies charging (one article I just found at electrek.co) for 75% less than Tesla's charge; and there's other companies advertising their services in this regard.
Back when I owned a VW bug, sure, one could hand it off to VW to get the engine bored; but one could also go to any number of third-party shops that would turn the crankshaft, fix the block, and re-surface the head. Given time and inventive types, I imagine getting replacement batteries is simply not going to be a big deal; same with getting the motors repaired.
There might be an issue with interfacing a new BMS system with the car's existing electronics. But that mainly depends upon Tesla being open with their specifications.. and I haven't heard that they're closed in this regard.
It is going to be a problem. I have a 14 year old Prius with the original traction battery. It could die anytime now and the replacement options are overwhelming. With poor warranties offered, you just hope the replacement is going to last at least a year whatever option you pick. It's going to be the same with Tesla's, just a lot more complex replacement and a lot more money.
The first Prius battery option I looked up cost $1500, 3 yr unlimited mileage warranty, 30 day free return and DIY, mobile service and shop options (which of course, add labor costs).
I'll take that for a 14 yr old vehicle, and a sunday afternoon, I'll happily take those odds.
I am not a big fan (to put it mildly) of people not even logging back in to check the thread they created a question on, like in this case. This OP created an account here, created this thread, then logged off, all within 7 minutes, and has not logged in at all to even look at the thread they created.
That usually means they didnt care at all about the thread they created.
That usually means they didnt care at all about the thread they created.
In a way, it's just like getting a refurbished ICE motor for an ICE; one pays a few grand. Sometimes they take the old oil-burning motor, bore out the cylinders, put different rings on the pistons, re-surface the crankshaft bearing surfaces, put in new (thicker) bearings on the crankshaft, do a valve job on the head, similar games on the cam shaft, and so on. When they're done, it's a new engine, good for 150,000 miles. (I've only done this, like, twice, when I had more time than money. So I know the basics.) Or they give you a new engine on the spot and take the old one away.
Problem is that the cost of overhauling an old engine like this, while effective, might be more than the value of the car. Which makes it worthwhile for antiques or other cars that retain their value, but not so much for, say, a Honda Civic.
Hmm. Now that I think of it, an ICE is considerably more complex than the electric motors in a BEV; for that matter, refurbishing the battery for a BEV is a lot simpler than overhauling an ICE. So it may turn out that, over time, "overhauling" old BEVs may become a serious cottage industry. Especially with Teslas, which are supposedly designed to last a million miles against rust and corrosion.
exactly what i'm saying
yes, ev's are much much more simple mechanically.
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