Infinite Mile Battery Warranty [Now] Being Honored By Tesla [Issue Resolved]

[dgatwood]

Enjoy your car while you can. At that rate, in a little more than two weeks you will be down to 0 rated miles.

Obligatory XKCD:
605: Extrapolating - explain xkcd

 

[2012MS85]

OP mentions his current full range of 212 on a Friday that fell to 200 by Sunday. For comparison, I'll share my experience with vampire drain on my 2012 P85 with only 50k miles. I bought this perfectly maintained S three months ago; the original owner babied the battery (the entire car, actually) and never charged over 90%, but regularly to 90% (ergo, he did exactly what Tesla recommends). For the past month in Iowa, it's been bitter cold with lots of snow and ice, and thus, lots of salt on the roads. So I've been driving my Volt and my S has remained sleeping in my garage for 30 days straight. My battery was at 216 on Jan 17 when I parked it, and I woke up my S from its RipVanWinkle slumber on Feb 16 with 57 miles. So my P85 consumed ("lost") 159 miles over 30 days (aka, vampire drain), which averaged 5.3 miles per day. That's almost exactly what OP lost (12 miles over 2-3 days). Is this what most S owners experience regarding vampire drain as the car keeps itself warm (while it's been freezing outside, my insulated garage is generally about 40F)? I'd be curious of other S owners sharing what their real-world vampire drain is please. My 1st Tesla (2012 S85 with 80k miles) also had similar vampire drain. Depending on the weather, this amounts to 1-2 kWh per day. My month-long storage/sleep equaled 1.7 kWh per day (159 mile drop / 265 mile capacity = 60% of 85 kWh battery, which equals 51 kWh divided by 30 days). If others can share that this is normal (which I've always just assumed my high vampire drain was normal for an S), at least we can re-assure OP that his 212 to 200 mile drop is simply attributed to vampire drain and not something else. Thanks in advance for sharing your S's daily vampire drain

 

[HMARTINPT]

Sorry, but you really lost me there. I've seen hundreds, no doubt, of cars on the side of the road and with the one exception of the burning Beetle, couldn't tell you their model. People passing you honking are jerks, but you are really playing the pity party poorly saying it's because you have a Tesla. 10 seconds before they saw you, they couldn't care less than the 10 seconds after they passed you. People are annoyed at anyone driving slow, granted through no fault of your own, could you honestly say the model of any car you've ever passed?

I appreciate you sharing your experience, and this is good information, please stick to that. We've gotten a lot of analysis here on the data you've been able to provide. It's interesting the car died @ 5% in such a dramatic fashion. Hopefully we can get more data about your battery.

Sorry, but you really lost me there. I've seen hundreds, no doubt, of cars on the side of the road and with the one exception of the burning Beetle, couldn't tell you their model. People passing you honking are jerks, but you are really playing the pity party poorly saying it's because you have a Tesla. 10 seconds before they saw you, they couldn't care less than the 10 seconds after they passed you. People are annoyed at anyone driving slow, granted through no fault of your own, could you honestly say the model of any car you've ever passed?

I appreciate you sharing your experience, and this is good information, please stick to that. We've gotten a lot of analysis here on the data you've been able to provide. It's interesting the car died @ 5% in such a dramatic fashion. Hopefully we can get more data about your battery.

Sorry, but you really lost me there. I've seen hundreds, no doubt, of cars on the side of the road and with the one exception of the burning Beetle, couldn't tell you their model. People passing you honking are jerks, but you are really playing the pity party poorly saying it's because you have a Tesla. 10 seconds before they saw you, they couldn't care less than the 10 seconds after they passed you. People are annoyed at anyone driving slow, granted through no fault of your own, could you honestly say the model of any car you've ever passed?

I appreciate you sharing your experience, and this is good information, please stick to that. We've gotten a lot of analysis here on the data you've been able to provide. It's interesting the car died @ 5% in such a dramatic fashion. Hopefully we can get more data about your battery.

Thanks for your input and I will definitely keep you posted. It is always good to hear from other Texas Tesla owners. We are definitely a minority in a state that is driven by oil and gas. I do understand the Texas majority given that is how most support their families and that industry is their livelihood. That doesn’t mean I agree with them. I wish more on this site could understand even if they don’t agree. Tesla should do the right thing and stand by what they say.
Sorry if you felt that I implied that I was getting honked at because I was in a Tesla. I was getting honked at because I was driving slow as a result of my Tesla batteries capacity dropping suddenly. I will say this, I have been given the finger, called a tree hugger, called a M-F’er because I was driving my Tesla with a zero emissions sign. Once again I can understand but definitely didn’t agree with those people. Of course those experiences just made me want to defend Tesla more to the citizens of Texas. One of my best arguements about purchasing a car at this price was the 8 year/infinite mile warranty but it looks like I can’t use that one anymore unless Tesla changes its tune. Thanks again for your input!

 

[HMARTINPT]

OP mentions his current full range of 212 on a Friday that fell to 200 by Sunday. For comparison, I'll share my experience with vampire drain on my 2012 P85 with only 50k miles. I bought this perfectly maintained S three months ago; the original owner babied the battery (the entire car, actually) and never charged over 90%, but regularly to 90% (ergo, he did exactly what Tesla recommends). For the past month in Iowa, it's been bitter cold with lots of snow and ice, and thus, lots of salt on the roads. So I've been driving my Volt and my S has remained sleeping in my garage for 30 days straight. My battery was at 216 on Jan 17 when I parked it, and I woke up my S from its RipVanWinkle slumber on Feb 16 with 57 miles. So my P85 consumed ("lost") 159 miles over 30 days (aka, vampire drain), which averaged 5.3 miles per day. That's almost exactly what OP lost (12 miles over 2-3 days). Is this what most S owners experience regarding vampire drain as the car keeps itself warm (while it's been freezing outside, my insulated garage is generally about 40F)? I'd be curious of other S owners sharing what their real-world vampire drain is please. My 1st Tesla (2012 S85 with 80k miles) also had similar vampire drain. Depending on the weather, this amounts to 1-2 kWh per day. My month-long storage/sleep equaled 1.7 kWh per day (159 mile drop / 265 mile capacity = 60% of 85 kWh battery, which equals 51 kWh divided by 30 days). If others can share that this is normal (which I've always just assumed my high vampire drain was normal for an S), at least we can re-assure OP that his 212 to 200 mile drop is simply attributed to vampire drain and not something else. Thanks in advance for sharing your S's daily vampire drain

I use my car everyday and don’t let it sit for days so I can’t help on the vampire drain. I picked up the car on Friday and charged to 90% Friday night. The reading was 173 after charging so I tripped charged it to 100% Saturday night which read to 200. An unexplained drop from 212 that Tesla quoted to 200. Thanks for your input.

 

[HMARTINPT]

209 miles after 240k miles is normal degradation - so says Tesla.

You and others can bring all the research material and lab work and papers written by esteemed researchers all over the world. All they have done is extrapolated their lab results - and that means nothing, zilch in the real world. It is all just theoretical. I can also do some experiments in my backyard and publish a paper that an EV should only lose 18.8% capacity after 350k miles based on my 2 day test results.

People here who pound their desks and say this is abnormal degradation are being intellectually dishonest.

There has not been a SINGLE company in the world that has produced an EV that can drive this many numbers of miles to gather any practical statistical evidence to say how much a car's Lion battery should degrade after quarter million miles driven over many summers and winters in Houston heat.

So at this time Tesla is only entity that can look up and say with some degree of certainty that what a degradation should look after 6 years and 240k miles driven hard in hot climes. (and even for them there are probably a statistically small number of Teslas at that mileage). And they say this is normal degradation. So just count your luck and move on.

Well isn’t that convenient for Tesla that they are the only ones that can determine what degradation is. You are actually helping me make my point. It seems that what you are saying is that you and Tesla can say it is degradation no matter what the problem is(ie malfunction with range, sudden loss of battery capacity) Tesla wouldn’t divulge the information about cars with my amount of mileage compared to the battery capacity when I asked. I know most readers would agree that Tesla should be more transparent with their findings so the public can make an educated decision on whether to buy a Tesla.

 

[StealthP3D]

It seems that what you are saying is that you and Tesla can say it is degradation no matter what the problem is(ie malfunction with range, sudden loss of battery capacity) Tesla wouldn’t divulge the information about cars with my amount of mileage compared to the battery capacity when I asked.

Well you have to know how to ask, if you try to do it in the brashest, most attention-seeking way you probably won't get as good of results as if you do it in a more respectable and less confrontational way. Certainly, Tesla has tracked your battery degradation remotely, knows it is not covered under the unlimited mileage battery warranty, and it doesn't surprise me that they are not willing to give in to your demands. It could have turned out differently if you had handled it better. Still, I doubt it would have resulted in a goodwill warranty replacement considering it has 239,000 miles on it.

I know most readers would agree that Tesla should be more transparent with their findings so the public can make an educated decision on whether to buy a Tesla.

Haha, I think most would agree the same would apply to GM, Ford, VW, BMW, etc. I'm just happy to have a new American car company that is head and shoulders above the status quo in those terms.

 

[Seven7]

I will wager that at sometime in the near future the battery will actually completely fail and OP will get a replacement under warranty.

I love Tesla cars now, this is my first but I am hooked for so many reasons that this will be one of many more I will buy in the future even if my battery gives out at 240,000 miles.

AGREED ! My opinion, Tesla wants the OP to keep this battery until it's no longer usable, then it will get replaced.

 

[HMARTINPT]

Well you have to know how to ask, if you try to do it in the brashest, most attention-seeking way you probably won't get as good of results as if you do it in a more respectable and less confrontational way. Certainly, Tesla has tracked your battery degradation remotely, knows it is not covered under the unlimited mileage battery warranty, and it doesn't surprise me that they are not willing to give in to your demands. It could have turned out differently if you had handled it better. Still, I doubt it would have resulted in a goodwill warranty replacement considering it has 239,000 miles on it.



Haha, I think most would agree the same would apply to GM, Ford, VW, BMW, etc. I'm just happy to have a new American car company that is head and shoulders above the status quo in those terms.

I tried working it out with Tesla amicably for over a month. I had no problems working it out with them when 3 different drive trains that have failed so who are you to say I didn’t try and work it out with them. I am still trying to work it out with them over a month later. Once again you are bringing up the 239,000 miles on the vehicle, Tesla shouldn’t promote infinite miles if they don’t want to have to warranty the problems that go along with it. I believe we both understand that we will continue to disagree on the subject and thank you for letting me get my side of the story out to thousands on this page.

 

[StealthP3D]

I tried working it out with Tesla amicably for over a month.

I'm just saying it might have gone better had you not been so confrontational. I'm not saying you went into it like a raving lunatic, just that you do seem to have unrealistic expectations that since Tesla has been overly generous in the past (with goodwill warranty replacements) that you were owed something beyond the specific terms of the warranty also.

I know that would have rubbed me the wrong way right from the get-go (actually, it did).

 

[davewill]

Boy, you guys are tough! The situation seems simple enough to me. If the car is going to continue to operate in the roughly 200 mi range neighborhood and the range only decreases gradually, then I'd say it's degradation (and it sounds like the OP would be happy with that). If it unexpectedly drops by 60-80 miles again, then it seems to me that there's something definitely wrong (maybe battery, maybe BMS). Right now I don't see how anybody (except maybe Tesla if they have more info than we do) could know for sure.

 

[StealthP3D]

Boy, you guys are tough! The situation seems simple enough to me. If the car is going to continue to operate in the roughly 200 mi range neighborhood and the range only decreases gradually, then I'd say it's degradation (and it sounds like the OP would be happy with that).

We actually agree with that. There isn't an issue here that falls under warranty at the current time.

How is that being tough? It's the OP who thinks he is owed a brand new battery even though he has presented no evidence that there is anything more than battery degradation, something specifically not covered by the warranty.

This ain't rocket science, it's someone who thinks he's entitled to something without making a good case that he's entitled to it.

 

[Electroman]

I use my car everyday and don’t let it sit for days so I can’t help on the vampire drain. I picked up the car on Friday and charged to 90% Friday night. The reading was 173 after charging so I tripped charged it to 100% Saturday night which read to 200. An unexplained drop from 212 that Tesla quoted to 200. Thanks for your input.

You will not always get the full range when you top it off like that, on an older battery. You need to get it low to say 20% and then charge it to 100%.

 

[davewill]

We actually agree with that. There isn't an issue here that falls under warranty at the current time.

How is that being tough? It's the OP who thinks he is owed a brand new battery even though he has presented no evidence that there is anything more than battery degradation, something specifically not covered by the warranty.

This ain't rocket science, it's someone who thinks he's entitled to something without making a good case that he's entitled to it.

I'd have reacted very similarly. Until the very last where they claimed to have recalibrated the GOM (which sounds a bit sketchy to me), they were essentially telling him that his car, which crapped out suddenly at 139 miles, had nothing wrong with it except degradation, and he could expect this as normal behavior. That would have pissed me off! At this point, only time will tell whether they have fixed it or not. I'm not surprised the OP remains skeptical.

 

[StealthP3D]

That would have pissed me off!

I was pissed off too when the turbos and the transmission in my Volvo crapped out at only 80,000 at the same time and Volvo told me it wasn't under warranty.

Then I realized they were right. Being pissed off doesn't mean you have a case. It just means you're not getting what you feel entitled to.

 

[Electroman]

OP - are you in this leaderboard?

@TeslaMiles

 

[HMARTINPT]

You will not always get the full range when you top it off like that, on an older battery. You need to get it low to say 20% and then charge it to 100%.

It just came out of the service center where they were charging from 0-100% for about a week to help recalibrate the battery per Tesla.

 

[HMARTINPT]

OP - are you in this leaderboard?

@TeslaMiles

No but I will take a look at it. I noticed a lot of Tesloop vehicles. Thanks of the info.

 

[davewill]

I was pissed off too when the turbos and the transmission in my Volvo crapped out at only 80,000 at the same time and Volvo told me it wasn't under warranty.

Then I realized they were right. Being pissed off doesn't mean you have a case. It just means you're not getting what you feel entitled to.

But a sudden drop of 50-80 miles of range (which is what he saw) ISN'T gradual degradation, and his battery IS under warranty unlike your Volvo. If your Volvo had been under warranty and they told you that they weren't covering the transmission because suddenly crapping out at 80K was normal wear and tear, then your situation would have been parallel.

 

[StealthP3D]

But a sudden drop of 50-80 miles of range ISN'T gradual degradation, and his battery IS under warranty unlike your Volvo. If your Volvo had been under warranty and they told you that they weren't covering the transmission because suddenly crapping out at 80K was normal wear and tear...

The OP's P85 is not under an unconditional battery warranty. My Volvo still had limited warranty coverage, it's just that transmission failure and turbo failure were not covered at that point. But my point was that anger is not an indicator of whether something is covered or it's not. I was not trying to compare the two warranty situations, just the human reaction.

But yeah, it probably hurts a lot more to have expensive things crap at after only 80,000 miles rather than 239,000. Oh, wait, the OP's car didn't crap out at 239,000, it still works, albeit with reduced range!

I must have missed the part where the OP had a sudden drop of 50-80 miles of rated range!

 

[davewill]

The OP's P85 is not under an unconditional bumper to bumper warranty. My Volvo still had limited warranty coverage, it's just that transmission failure and turbo failure were not covered at that point.

Right, not parallel, as I said.

But my point was that anger is not an indicator of whether something is covered or it's not. I was not trying to compare the two warranty situations, just the human reaction.

Is that supposed to mean you DO understand why the OP wasn't satisfied early on?

But yeah, it probably hurts a lot more to have expensive things crap at after only 80,000 miles rather than 239,000. Oh, wait, the OP's car didn't crap out at 239,000, it still works, albeit with reduced range!

Getting stranded on the side of the road 50 miles earlier that he should have sure sounds crapped out to me!