Insurance company claims no value to a new battery and other items

[Rockster]

Here's the situation: A recent hail storm did a bunch of damage to our 2015 P85 and now we are dealing with the insurance company regarding valuation to determine if the car will be totaled or fixed. We prefer that the car be fixed because it has had a bunch of things replaced by Tesla recently, including MCU, door handles, onboard charger, and most notably a new battery just a few weeks ago. Also, the insurance adjustor says that the insurance company prefers that it be fixed, too, because that's cheaper for them than totaling the car. The problem is the third-party valuation company that they hired is, in my opinion, doing a poor job, and the adjustor doesn't know enough to find fault with the report.

To determine a value on our car, the valuation company simply looked at other 2015 P85's that were sold and averaged the sale prices and ignored the recently replaced components. On the subject of the battery, for example, their assertion is that a potential buyer of a used 2015 P85 with 95,000 miles would not be willing to pay a penny more for an otherwise identical car that has a three week old battery that shows factory new rated range versus the original battery that has 95,000 miles use.

I think their assertion is absurd and that one of the first things a used BEV buyer should consider is how much battery degradation has occurred. There has to be some value difference between the two.

Similarly, Tesla replaced our MCU nine months ago. A knowledgeable Tesla buyer would know that MCU's suffer from failure due to memory degrading and find some greater value in an otherwise identical car with an MCU that's nine months old instead of four years old.

When comparing two otherwise identical P85's from 2015, what do you think the value difference is for the one with the new battery?

What's the added value for an MCU that's only nine months old?

Or an onboard charger that's only eight months old?

 

[Runt8]

Seems like it would be similar to a 2015 ICE that just had the engine and transmission replaced.

 

[brkaus]

If it’s cheaper for them and you want it, they should be willing to fix.

But I wouldn’t value a accident damaged / repaired car with a new battery more than a undamaged car with an old battery. The battery is under warranty for a good bit longer in either case.

 

[Brando]

Here's the situation: A recent hail storm did a bunch of damage to our 2015 P85 and now we are dealing with the insurance company regarding valuation to determine if the car will be totaled or fixed. We prefer that the car be fixed because it has had a bunch of things replaced by Tesla recently, including MCU, door handles, onboard charger, and most notably a new battery just a few weeks ago. Also, the insurance adjustor says that the insurance company prefers that it be fixed, too, because that's cheaper for them than totaling the car. The problem is the third-party valuation company that they hired is, in my opinion, doing a poor job, and the adjustor doesn't know enough to find fault with the report.

To determine a value on our car, the valuation company simply looked at other 2015 P85's that were sold and averaged the sale prices and ignored the recently replaced components. On the subject of the battery, for example, their assertion is that a potential buyer of a used 2015 P85 with 95,000 miles would not be willing to pay a penny more for an otherwise identical car that has a three week old battery that shows factory new rated range versus the original battery that has 95,000 miles use.

I think their assertion is absurd and that one of the first things a used BEV buyer should consider is how much battery degradation has occurred. There has to be some value difference between the two.

Similarly, Tesla replaced our MCU nine months ago. A knowledgeable Tesla buyer would know that MCU's suffer from failure due to memory degrading and find some greater value in an otherwise identical car with an MCU that's nine months old instead of four years old.

When comparing two otherwise identical P85's from 2015, what do you think the value difference is for the one with the new battery?

What's the added value for an MCU that's only nine months old?

Or an onboard charger that's only eight months old?

Will Tesla perhaps give you an estimate - or the shop you prefer?
AND do you already know the total vehicle pay out?
Seems a simple comparison. no?? are the numbers fair ??
Would repair shop do work for the "total or Salvaged price ??
Take the totaled money. Keep the now "Salvaged car" and go get fixed (check with Tesla to make sure no registration problems or what you might need to do to keep or re-register with Tesla - got to keep those updates coming.

Just some random thoughts from some unknown guy on the internet - no experience in such matters.

ideas are easy & cheap - the hard part is exicustion

 

[mswlogo]

Did you buy a brand new battery or was it replaced under warranty?

The replacements are usually refurbished.

Also some cars that age still have fairly long battery warranties, or extended warranties on the battery or the option to add an extended warranty.

 

[Rockster]

If it’s cheaper for them and you want it, they should be willing to fix.

But I wouldn’t value a accident damaged / repaired car with a new battery more than a undamaged car with an old battery. The battery is under warranty for a good bit longer in either case.

It's not that simple. They want to fix it but they must make the numbers work.

 

[Rockster]

Gang, I appreciate the thoughts but we're straying from the subject. The question is not what anyone would value my hail damaged car or what the warranty is on the battery or should I buy the car from them if they total it or anything. Those discussions are ongoing and not what I'm trying to answer here.

The question is simply this:

If you were looking to buy two hypothetically identical P85s (identical 95k mileage, identical history, identical condition, etc.) and the ONLY difference between the two was that one of them had the battery replaced by Tesla three weeks ago and it was showing factory new rated range and the other one had the original battery with 100k miles on it and the degradation that 95k miles had caused, would you pay the exact same price for both used cars? I believe that a person would be willing to pay more for the one with the new battery from Tesla.

Same question, only replace "battery" with "new MCU."

Same question, only replace "battery" with "new onboard charger."

 

[jjrandorin]

Gang, I appreciate the thoughts but we're straying from the subject. The question is not what anyone would value my hail damaged car or what the warranty is on the battery or should I buy the car from them if they total it or anything. Those discussions are ongoing and not what I'm trying to answer here.

The question is simply this:

If you were looking to buy two hypothetically identical P85s (identical 95k mileage, identical history, identical condition, etc.) and the ONLY difference between the two was that one of them had the battery replaced by Tesla three weeks ago and it was showing factory new rated range and the other one had the original battery with 100k miles on it and the degradation that 95k miles had caused, would you pay the exact same price for both used cars? I believe that a person would be willing to pay more for the one with the new battery from Tesla.

Same question, only replace "battery" with "new MCU."

Same question, only replace "battery" with "new onboard charger."

If I could get IN WRITING that the battery was BRAND NEW I would pay more. Without that, they are worth the same to me, because "refurbished" is just a fancy word for "used" to me and to many others.

The new MCU and onboard charger have almost no value to "me". If the two cars were on the market I would choose the one with the replaced parts... but not if it was more than about 1k more in total. I guess that means it has a 1k value to me.

 

[Rockster]

If I could get IN WRITING that the battery was BRAND NEW I would pay more. Without that, they are worth the same to me, because "refurbished" is just a fancy word for "used" to me and to many others.

The new MCU and onboard charger have almost no value to "me". If the two cars were on the market I would choose the one with the replaced parts... but not if it was more than about 1k more in total. I guess that means it has a 1k value to me.

Ok. So we have a vote for $1k difference in valuation. Thanks!

Personally, I wouldn't need something proving that the battery was brand new since I could look at the rated range on the car with the new battery and see that it was higher than the one with the original battery, factory new rated range, in fact.

 

[Brando]

Thinking out side the box:

Insurance Company wants/will minimize $ to you.
What could you do to your benefit?
Consider getting the $ from insurance company. Keep Salvage car, you are the owner. Think out side the box.

For example: preserve the damaged look - rather than bringing back to "new condition".
Did you see Icon 1949 Mercury with Tesla drive?
OR do a wrap vs repaint - or ghetto hand can spray paint job - or let your kids do it, Or get some "sponsor" to paint as an ad car,
Or TV project car by Chip Foose or Monkey Garage or... your dream car custom knowing the condition of the salvaged car.

Even notifying rebuilders your VIN number so they might work at getting this car knowing its mechanical condition.

Have fun, enjoy, lemonade from lemons.

 

[Rockster]

Thinking out side the box:

Insurance Company wants/will minimize $ to you.
What could you do to your benefit?
Consider getting the $ from insurance company. Keep Salvage car, you are the owner. Think out side the box.

For example: preserve the damaged look - rather than bringing back to "new condition".
Did you see Icon 1949 Mercury with Tesla drive?
OR do a wrap vs repaint - or ghetto hand can spray paint job - or let your kids do it, Or get some "sponsor" to paint as an ad car,
Or TV project car by Chip Foose or Monkey Garage or... your dream car custom knowing the condition of the salvaged car.

Even notifying rebuilders your VIN number so they might work at getting this car knowing its mechanical condition.

Have fun, enjoy, lemonade from lemons.

Good thoughts. All of these are on our Plan B list, the first of which is buying the car back and fixing some subset of the damages. Right now, though, we are so close to the cutoff for fixing it that increasing the valuation by just a couple of thousand dollars will make everyone happy. The insurance company wants to minimize their payout, yes, but in this case that means fixing it rather than totaling it because the cutoff for them to total the car in Texas is 80%. Therefore, fixing the car instead of totaling it saves the insurance company 20%. They want to find reasons to increase its value so that they can fix it.

 

[CUBldr97]

did the warranty on the battery get extended past 2023 (original 8 year warranty)? is it in writing?

if the answer is no, then it did not add value to the car. even if it is brand new.. if it fails in 2024 for what ever reason, the out of pocket would be the same whether it was 4 years old or 8+ ... as said above, if there were two identical cars side by side, a buyer might consider yours over the other based on the "newer components" but not a lot more, IMHO

 

[Rockster]

did the warranty on the battery get extended past 2023 (original 8 year warranty)? is it in writing?

if the answer is no, then it did not add value to the car. even if it is brand new.. if it fails in 2024 for what ever reason, the out of pocket would be the same whether it was 4 years old or 8+ ... as said above, if there were two identical cars side by side, a buyer might consider yours over the other based on the "newer components" but not a lot more, IMHO

I disagree. Look at any guide to purchasing a used electric vehicle and top on the list is "what is the state of the battery? how much degradation has it suffered?" Our car has factory new range, which is superior to an otherwise identical car with 95k miles on the battery and that shows degraded range. You can't honestly say that you would not perceive more value in our car versus an identical one with nearly 100k miles on the battery and that starts every full charge with less range.

 

[jjrandorin]

I disagree. Look at any guide to purchasing a used electric vehicle and top on the list is "what is the state of the battery? how much degradation has it suffered?" Our car has factory new range, which is superior to an otherwise identical car with 95k miles on the battery and that shows degraded range. You can't honestly say that you would not perceive more value in our car versus an identical one with nearly 100k miles on the battery and that starts every full charge with less range.

I can actually honestly say that, because how long its warrantied for would be more important to me than whatever the range meter in the car said. It would be more important to me to have the battery fully covered for more years, than it showing a range increase but warranty run out the same time as if it was not replaced.

Maybe I am different than most, but I dont think so. I think you are too close to the issue to see it how someone outside your situation might see it.

Warranty years on the battery trumps range on said battery. If you know it will be replaced if there is a problem with it, thats way more powerful than whatever the range number says in the car right now.

 

[Rockster]

I can actually honestly say that, because how long its warrantied for would be more important to me than whatever the range meter in the car said. It would be more important to me to have the battery fully covered for more years, than it showing a range increase but warranty run out the same time as if it was not replaced.

Maybe I am different than most, but I dont think so. I think you are too close to the issue to see it how someone outside your situation might see it.

Warranty years on the battery trumps range on said battery. If you know it will be replaced if there is a problem with it, thats way more powerful than whatever the range number says in the car right now.

Again, we're getting off in the weeds here. For the purposes of comparison we must assume that both cars have identical warranties. In this case, both have the exact same eight year, infinite mlle warranty that would be expiring on the exact same day. You are, of course, free to your opinion and I respect that, but I hear so many people in the Tesla community concerned when their rated range drops by a mile or two or, heaven forbid, 10 or 20 or 30 miles, that I still believe that, everything else being equal, a used S with a new battery showing factory new range has greater resale value than the same used car with a degraded battery.

 

[jjrandorin]

I was just trying to give you a scenario where it would be worth significantly more to me. New battery with longer warranty = worth significantly more to me. Otherwise, it would not be worth "significantly more". I already mentioned what it would be worth to "me". About 1k for all of those parts replaced together.

 

[Rockster]

I was just trying to give you a scenario where it would be worth significantly more to me. New battery with longer warranty = worth significantly more to me. Otherwise, it would not be worth "significantly more". I already mentioned what it would be worth to "me". About 1k for all of those parts replaced together.

Gotcha. Agreed that all in all, a longer warranty would be more desirable, if that were on the table.

 

[jjrandorin]

I have to say, this is one of the few times I can remember reading someone with a "regular" car hoping insurance does NOT total it. By "regular" car I mean something that is not considered a collector type car, like BMW 1M's or some 911's etc.

Why dont you want to get it totaled? Dont want to get a new Model S or worried about getting appropriate value for the current one?

 

[Rockster]

I have to say, this is one of the few times I can remember reading someone with a "regular" car hoping insurance does NOT total it. By "regular" car I mean something that is not considered a collector type car, like BMW 1M's or some 911's etc.

Why dont you want to get it totaled? Dont want to get a new Model S or worried about getting appropriate value for the current one?

It's a P85 with autopilot, which makes it a bit of a unicorn. We love the car and have taken superb care of it. In the past 12 months it has gotten a bunch of new components, including new MCU, a new onboard 80 amp dual charger, new door handles, and a new battery. If they total it, we'd have to go buy a new one and while I'm always excited at the thought of a brand new Tesla, we'd still be looking at spending north of $50 or $60k to make up the difference, unless we buy a CPO, which we'd rather avoid.

 

[Az_Rael]

If I was comparing the 2 cars, I would assume the replacement battery was a refurb since I know Tesla no longer makes new 85kWh batteries. So I would price them the same. Degradation on our 2015 hasn't been that bad, so it would not be a significant factor for me.

Many people have been getting 90kWh batteries as warranty replacements, that might be worth something to me assuming it was a V3 battery.