Really? I love the sales system. It took me less than 10 minutes to place my order online. I would never buy from a dealership again.
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Hmmm, since you are in Michigan may be you went to Chicago? We bought 2 MS from Chicago with terrific service. Just picked up our P85DL from 2 year annual checkup. It was plain flawless. Minor alignment adjustment. They identified and fixed a few minor problems that I wasn't aware off: An AC line was touching a frame component sometimes and creating extra rattle. Identified and fixed. The handle on the center console cover was broken on one side. They replaced the center console. The car is detailed etc. All of this for the fixed 2 year fee of $700 and the car was delivered back to our residence.
While there are some reports of the quality of service going down I must say my personal experience continues to be nothing but stellar.
I ordered my P85 4 years ago. At that time, Tesla didn't have any service centers in Texas - the nearest was in Denver.
I placed the order online, not much worse than ordering any other product online, just with a few more options.
The car was shipped via UPS (well, UPS subcontracted it to someone else), who delivered the car to my front door.
I had to process a little extra paperwork from Tesla prior to the delivery (plus purchasing the car before it arrived was a leap of faith), and then I had to make an extra trip to the county tax office to register the car (and pay the taxes) and then to get it inspected for the first time.
Compared to my experiences in purchasing cars from dealerships, this was the easiest purchase I've made - and really don't see that the dealerships have provided any real value to the purchase, especially to justify what they are getting out of the car sales.
I placed the order online, not much worse than ordering any other product online, just with a few more options.
The car was shipped via UPS (well, UPS subcontracted it to someone else), who delivered the car to my front door.
I had to process a little extra paperwork from Tesla prior to the delivery (plus purchasing the car before it arrived was a leap of faith), and then I had to make an extra trip to the county tax office to register the car (and pay the taxes) and then to get it inspected for the first time.
Compared to my experiences in purchasing cars from dealerships, this was the easiest purchase I've made - and really don't see that the dealerships have provided any real value to the purchase, especially to justify what they are getting out of the car sales.
Great comments, and as expected most people prefer the current Tesla sale experience. That's to be expected since most people, not just Tesla buyers, dislike dealerships, in general.
I think given the current volume, Tesla model is working alright. However, when volume increases several folds, I see several potential problems, some of them serious:
1. Not enough people to work on deliveries, causing delays (they are already pretty hard to reach nowadays).
2. Service delays, which is already a problem in busy locations (not so much in NC, but definitely in CA). It appears there aren't enough service people in some places already, and this issue will grow if there are suddenly 5x the cars.
3. Trade-in pricing and experience - due to low volume and cars' prices, today's Tesla trade-ins are likely not that numerous and also fairly premium. When Model 3 comes on line, people will care a lot more about the 2k difference between Tesla's offer vs maybe another dealership. This may result in lost sales, displeasure among customers (feeling low-balled), etc. Similar to 1, insufficient amount of sales people may cause problems.
I am not saying these issues are unresolvable, but they are pretty hard to resolve in a short period of time. It takes time to hire and train people.
I think given the current volume, Tesla model is working alright. However, when volume increases several folds, I see several potential problems, some of them serious:
1. Not enough people to work on deliveries, causing delays (they are already pretty hard to reach nowadays).
2. Service delays, which is already a problem in busy locations (not so much in NC, but definitely in CA). It appears there aren't enough service people in some places already, and this issue will grow if there are suddenly 5x the cars.
3. Trade-in pricing and experience - due to low volume and cars' prices, today's Tesla trade-ins are likely not that numerous and also fairly premium. When Model 3 comes on line, people will care a lot more about the 2k difference between Tesla's offer vs maybe another dealership. This may result in lost sales, displeasure among customers (feeling low-balled), etc. Similar to 1, insufficient amount of sales people may cause problems.
I am not saying these issues are unresolvable, but they are pretty hard to resolve in a short period of time. It takes time to hire and train people.
My first ever new car purchase was easy peasy. Of course, it helped that it was done through the Volvo Military Overseas Program. Custom ordered everything, received discount military pricing on a brand new model being launched in the US later that fall (2008 C30). Pretty sure I was one of the first people to drive a C30 around in the states.
Second experience (2010 GMC Terrain) was a complete debacle. I thought using military pricing would make it a breeze. How far from the truth that was. The sales rep I ended up with was a complete sleazebag (running credit checks without my permission, misleading statements)...I even ended up walking out at least once. For some reason, I decided to close the deal later at the same dealership, but I ripped them in the CSI survey I got later.
3rd purchase (2012 Chevy Volt), went fairly smoothly. There were big discounts on leftover '12s, so really didn't have to battle much at all on price. Only thing is the F&I guy pushed the extended warranty real hard....I ended up declining that, and the deal was done.
4th purchase was awesome! I never even set a toe in the dealership I ended up leasing the '13 Ford C-Max Energi from. Everything was done through email. After they gave me a joke first quote, I went "Are you kidding me?". Then the sales manager called me up and gave me a too hard to pass up offer. Made the 1st month's payment over the phone, then they had 2 guys drive the C-Max to my driveway, I signed the papers right there, and that was that. 5 stars.
5th deal was on a '16 Cruze Limited lease for what ended up being $44/month. Thought I had everything all lined up and confirmed (even asked the sales guy 3 times if the numbers were correct). I get into the F&I office, and suddenly my monthly payment ballooned over 20%! Turned out they had made a "mistake" with the money factor, and the correct one ended up with a 20% higher monthly. I obviously went off, telling them they were a bunch of liars that just wasted half of my day. I walked out, but the sales guy begged me to come back in.
The sales manager showed me the numbers on his computer, then offered to toss in $300 worth of visa giftcards, along with $1k cash out of their pocket to honor the original deal. I ended up taking it, but inability to properly add numbers almost blew that deal.
Deals 6-9 all went down pretty much the same way, all at the same dealership (Cruze/Spark EV/Volt/Spark EV leases). I hashed out the numbers over email, sales rep confirmed, I showed up, signed the papers, and drove away in my new car just as discussed over email in around an hour. Helps when the dealer knows you are serious about buying (and especially if you have leased multiple cars earlier in the year).
Run down of all my deals (before taxes/fees):
2008 Volvo C30 2.0 MSRP $32k - $27k via military pricing
2010 GMC Terrain MSRP $25k - $24k after after discounts/rebates (probably my worst deal of the bunch)
2012 Volt MSRP $44.5k- $5k off including factory rebates (and another $2k off due to MD sales tax credit..plus the $7.5k fed credit of course)
2013 Ford C-Max, MSRP $38,5k - 24 month/10.5k mile lease, $0 down, $334/month + $600 MD tax credit check
2016 Cruze Limited #1 MSRP $21,620 - 24 month/10k mile lease, $0 down, $44/month (after factoring $1k in gift cards)....ended up flipping through Beepi for $4.7k profit
2016 Cruze Limited #2 MSRP $21,620 - 24 month/10k mile lease, $0 down, $124/month, flipped lease into Volt deal)
2016 Spark EV MSRP $27,135 - 36 month/10k mile lease, $150 down, 150/month (+ free $500 Bosch L2 EVSE)
2017 Volt MSRP $35,010 - 36 month/10k mile lease, $0 down, $261/month (rolled ~$800 negative equity from Cruze #2)
2016 Spark EV #2 MSRP $27,135 - 36 month/10k mile lease, $0 down, $148/month (rolled in ~800 of negative equity from Spark #1...still came out cheaper + another free $500 Bosch L2 EVSE)...ended up selling privately and broke even.
And I'll be adding a 2017 Bolt EV purchase to my history shortly.
Second experience (2010 GMC Terrain) was a complete debacle. I thought using military pricing would make it a breeze. How far from the truth that was. The sales rep I ended up with was a complete sleazebag (running credit checks without my permission, misleading statements)...I even ended up walking out at least once. For some reason, I decided to close the deal later at the same dealership, but I ripped them in the CSI survey I got later.
3rd purchase (2012 Chevy Volt), went fairly smoothly. There were big discounts on leftover '12s, so really didn't have to battle much at all on price. Only thing is the F&I guy pushed the extended warranty real hard....I ended up declining that, and the deal was done.
4th purchase was awesome! I never even set a toe in the dealership I ended up leasing the '13 Ford C-Max Energi from. Everything was done through email. After they gave me a joke first quote, I went "Are you kidding me?". Then the sales manager called me up and gave me a too hard to pass up offer. Made the 1st month's payment over the phone, then they had 2 guys drive the C-Max to my driveway, I signed the papers right there, and that was that. 5 stars.
5th deal was on a '16 Cruze Limited lease for what ended up being $44/month. Thought I had everything all lined up and confirmed (even asked the sales guy 3 times if the numbers were correct). I get into the F&I office, and suddenly my monthly payment ballooned over 20%! Turned out they had made a "mistake" with the money factor, and the correct one ended up with a 20% higher monthly. I obviously went off, telling them they were a bunch of liars that just wasted half of my day. I walked out, but the sales guy begged me to come back in.
The sales manager showed me the numbers on his computer, then offered to toss in $300 worth of visa giftcards, along with $1k cash out of their pocket to honor the original deal. I ended up taking it, but inability to properly add numbers almost blew that deal.
Deals 6-9 all went down pretty much the same way, all at the same dealership (Cruze/Spark EV/Volt/Spark EV leases). I hashed out the numbers over email, sales rep confirmed, I showed up, signed the papers, and drove away in my new car just as discussed over email in around an hour. Helps when the dealer knows you are serious about buying (and especially if you have leased multiple cars earlier in the year).
Run down of all my deals (before taxes/fees):
2008 Volvo C30 2.0 MSRP $32k - $27k via military pricing
2010 GMC Terrain MSRP $25k - $24k after after discounts/rebates (probably my worst deal of the bunch)
2012 Volt MSRP $44.5k- $5k off including factory rebates (and another $2k off due to MD sales tax credit..plus the $7.5k fed credit of course)
2013 Ford C-Max, MSRP $38,5k - 24 month/10.5k mile lease, $0 down, $334/month + $600 MD tax credit check
2016 Cruze Limited #1 MSRP $21,620 - 24 month/10k mile lease, $0 down, $44/month (after factoring $1k in gift cards)....ended up flipping through Beepi for $4.7k profit
2016 Cruze Limited #2 MSRP $21,620 - 24 month/10k mile lease, $0 down, $124/month, flipped lease into Volt deal)
2016 Spark EV MSRP $27,135 - 36 month/10k mile lease, $150 down, 150/month (+ free $500 Bosch L2 EVSE)
2017 Volt MSRP $35,010 - 36 month/10k mile lease, $0 down, $261/month (rolled ~$800 negative equity from Cruze #2)
2016 Spark EV #2 MSRP $27,135 - 36 month/10k mile lease, $0 down, $148/month (rolled in ~800 of negative equity from Spark #1...still came out cheaper + another free $500 Bosch L2 EVSE)...ended up selling privately and broke even.
And I'll be adding a 2017 Bolt EV purchase to my history shortly.
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lolachampcar
Well-Known Member
I'm a big critic of certain Tesla business practices.
I can also say with ZERO reservation, yes, it is better.
I can also say with ZERO reservation, yes, it is better.
This thread has been interesting so far. In general I prefer manufacturer direct in most things.
1) I buy most insurance with direct writers (health is through an agent who supports our small business plan in Brazil);
2) most computers, smartphones, audio equipment I buy direct;
3) almost all agricultural supplies I buy from the manufacturer direct.
So, how about cars? I have had good and bad experiences with dealers. One, The Collection in Coral Gables, FL was so good that I bought four different brands from them. They are the only dealer with which I dealt that did not hassle me for unwanted extras, mostly because their customer records show preferences, I suspect. They also give pretty good service. I ave no other really good dealer experience and a few unpleasant stories. Perhaps not coincidently three of my purchases there were ordered by me prior to the actual model being available, so much of the usual dealer hassles did not apply. FWIW, my three bespoke from them were an Audi A4 convertible, a Jaguar XK8 convertible and a Maserati Spyder. My fourth brand, a Porsche 996, was scheduled to arrive although it had not yet done so.
Now Tesla. Everything was exemplary for me except my actual delivery, which was bizarre. I complained a day or so later. I had instant response form the responsible people who immediately corrected all my problems. I have since had only excellent experience. I prefer the Tesla model.
It should be noted that Autonation and CarMax, among others, have adopted non-haggle models. I have no personal experience with them.
I think every manufacturer of anything should be permitted to choose their preferred distribution methods. For high ticket items such as aircraft and boats, quite a few (e.g. Cessna, Bombardier) sell the low end through dealers and the higher end direct. Tesla, for example, might sell the S, X and new Roadster direct but sell some Model 3, Y, etc through dealers. They might not. I have personally bought a Cessna piston single (a new 182RG) from a dealer and another Cessna (A new 525) from the manufacturer. Both made sense to me. Would Tesla eventually make similar choices?
In reality the distribution choice seems to usually come down to a question of how much sales, delivery and specialized service support might be needed. In particular, if sales are typically made from inventory dealer models seem to predominate. If sales are made by bespoke orders direct sales seem to predominate.
In Tesla we have had a direct order model until recently, but that is changing with CPO and Inventory sales rising as a proportion of the whole.Will that portend change in the distribution model too? I suspect so, and do not expect it to be unusually stressful if it happens. Frankly, the hassle and cost of inventory maintenance just might tip the scales once high volumes arrive.
1) I buy most insurance with direct writers (health is through an agent who supports our small business plan in Brazil);
2) most computers, smartphones, audio equipment I buy direct;
3) almost all agricultural supplies I buy from the manufacturer direct.
So, how about cars? I have had good and bad experiences with dealers. One, The Collection in Coral Gables, FL was so good that I bought four different brands from them. They are the only dealer with which I dealt that did not hassle me for unwanted extras, mostly because their customer records show preferences, I suspect. They also give pretty good service. I ave no other really good dealer experience and a few unpleasant stories. Perhaps not coincidently three of my purchases there were ordered by me prior to the actual model being available, so much of the usual dealer hassles did not apply. FWIW, my three bespoke from them were an Audi A4 convertible, a Jaguar XK8 convertible and a Maserati Spyder. My fourth brand, a Porsche 996, was scheduled to arrive although it had not yet done so.
Now Tesla. Everything was exemplary for me except my actual delivery, which was bizarre. I complained a day or so later. I had instant response form the responsible people who immediately corrected all my problems. I have since had only excellent experience. I prefer the Tesla model.
It should be noted that Autonation and CarMax, among others, have adopted non-haggle models. I have no personal experience with them.
I think every manufacturer of anything should be permitted to choose their preferred distribution methods. For high ticket items such as aircraft and boats, quite a few (e.g. Cessna, Bombardier) sell the low end through dealers and the higher end direct. Tesla, for example, might sell the S, X and new Roadster direct but sell some Model 3, Y, etc through dealers. They might not. I have personally bought a Cessna piston single (a new 182RG) from a dealer and another Cessna (A new 525) from the manufacturer. Both made sense to me. Would Tesla eventually make similar choices?
In reality the distribution choice seems to usually come down to a question of how much sales, delivery and specialized service support might be needed. In particular, if sales are typically made from inventory dealer models seem to predominate. If sales are made by bespoke orders direct sales seem to predominate.
In Tesla we have had a direct order model until recently, but that is changing with CPO and Inventory sales rising as a proportion of the whole.Will that portend change in the distribution model too? I suspect so, and do not expect it to be unusually stressful if it happens. Frankly, the hassle and cost of inventory maintenance just might tip the scales once high volumes arrive.
This thread brings to mind Louis CK's great riff on cell phones and flying - the guy next to him bitching because the on board wifi is broken while they're 'soaring through the clouds, partaking in the miracle of human flight'. Whatever issues the Tesla store might have I can't imagine the dealers I've had over the years making anything better.
Things that I avoid paying for by buying direct:
Things that I avoid paying for by buying direct:
- The local dealer groups' owners' private jets, vacation homes, TV commercials, hairpieces etc.
- Political donations to state senators etc. to protect the dealer's interests above those of the consumer
- Their high school kids' Corvettes, related bodywork
- Stickers and license plate frames with THEIR advertising stuck on MY new car.
- Extras! Paint sealant, stripes, 'additional dealer profit', The F&I guy, the F&I guy's cologne. ugh.
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When I have to buy an ICE car I gird up for battle. Do lots of pricing homework. Try out the sales people. Study the interwebs. Last ICE purchase process lasted about 45 days. And I negotiate for a living.
When I have to buy a Tesla I go online, select my options, and press order. Last Tesla purchase lasted about 90 minutes as I agonized over interior lighting package or not.
Yes, I researched both cars a ton. More so with my MS because it was new technology. But when the research moved from consideration to purchase the decision was hands-down in favor of the direct model.
I agree with concerns about service. I've had great experiences thus far. When M3 comes out I hope capacity will meet the demand.
When I have to buy a Tesla I go online, select my options, and press order. Last Tesla purchase lasted about 90 minutes as I agonized over interior lighting package or not.
Yes, I researched both cars a ton. More so with my MS because it was new technology. But when the research moved from consideration to purchase the decision was hands-down in favor of the direct model.
I agree with concerns about service. I've had great experiences thus far. When M3 comes out I hope capacity will meet the demand.
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