Is load capacity too low?

[Nuclear Fusion]

I’m wondering if the load capacity is too low & affecting demand
The Cybertruck will have much higher load & towing capacity & is competitive with the Y on price, but is in a different class

 

[Watts_Up]

I’m wondering if the load capacity is too low & affecting demand
The Cybertruck will have much higher load & towing capacity & is competitive with the Y on price, but is in a different class

When making such posting, could you provide any values?

Tesla Model Y - Tow Hitch

High strength, Class II steel tow bar.
Capable of towing up to 3,500 lbs​

I checked the U-Haul web site and basically all the available trailers could be used,
however the largest trailers would have a reduced max load, see below.





4x7 Utility Trailer

Towing vehicle requirements:
Must have 1-7/8" or, 2" hitch ball (2,000 lbs. minimum)​

Capacity:

1790 lbs - Max load
_630 lbs - Empty weight
2400 lbs - Gross vehicle weight​

5x9 Utility Trailer

Towing vehicle requirements:
Must have 1-7/8" or, 2" hitch ball (2,000 lbs. minimum)​

Capacity:

1890 lbs - Max load
1000 lbs - Empty weight
2890 lbs - Gross vehicle weight (trailer plus load):​

5x9 Utility Trailer with Ramp

Towing vehicle requirements:
Must have 1-7/8" or, 2" hitch ball (2,000 lbs. minimum)​

Capacity:

1650 lbs - Max load
1240 lbs - Empty weight
2890 lbs - Gross vehicle weight (trailer plus load):

​

6x12 Utility Trailer

Towing vehicle requirements:
Must have 1-7/8" or, 2" hitch ball (3,500 lbs. minimum)​

Capacity:

2670 lbs - Max load
1730 lbs - Empty weight
4400 lbs - Gross vehicle weight (trailer plus load):

Model Y:
1770 lbs - Max load
​

6x12 Utility Trailer with Ramp

Towing vehicle requirements:
Must have 1-7/8" or, 2" hitch ball (3,500 lbs. minimum)​

Capacity:

2110 lbs - Max load
2290 lbs - Empty weight
4400 lbs - Gross vehicle weight (trailer plus load):​

Model Y:
1210 lbs - Max load

​

4x8 Cargo Trailer

Towing vehicle requirements:
Must have 1-7/8" or, 2" hitch ball (2,000 lbs. minimum)​

Capacity:

1650 lbs - Max load
_850 lbs - Empty weight
2500 lbs - Gross vehicle weight (trailer plus load):
​

5x8 Cargo Trailer

Towing vehicle requirements:
Must have 1-7/8" or, 2" hitch ball (2,000 lbs. minimum)​

Capacity:

1800 lbs - Max load
_900 lbs - Empty weight
2700 lbs - Gross vehicle weight (trailer plus load):

​

5x10 Cargo Trailer

Towing vehicle requirements:
Must have 1-7/8" or, 2" hitch ball (2,000 lbs. minimum)​

Capacity:

1550 lbs - Max load
1250 lbs - Empty weight
2800 lbs - Gross vehicle weight (trailer plus load):

​

6x12 Cargo Trailer

Towing vehicle requirements:
Must have 1-7/8" or, 2" hitch ball (3,500 lbs. minimum)​

Capacity:

2480 lbs - Max load
1920 lbs - Empty weight
4400 lbs - Gross vehicle weight (trailer plus load):​

Model Y:
1580 lbs - Max load
​

 

[Watts_Up]

For comparison, I would recommend watching Bjørn Nyland's video Model X consumption with trailers

 

[user212_nr]

I’m wondering if the load capacity is too low & affecting demand
The Cybertruck will have much higher load & towing capacity & is competitive with the Y on price, but is in a different class

Demand is very high for the Model Y. There are literally only hundreds of cars on the road, it is way too early to talk about demand.

I suspect that the car can probably tow far more than the listed 3,500 lbs if you are not towing on the highway and/or over long distances. For example, if you have a large boat you need to move around town to put in the water. The motors are known for their torque. The Model X is shown towing an airplane, and realistically any car can exceed its towing capacity at a lower speed.

 

[rxlawdude]

Demand is very high for the Model Y. There are literally only hundreds of cars on the road, it is way too early to talk about demand.

Curious, then, why Tesla added the Model 3 and Model Y to the referral program at this time. Seems it's pulling a demand lever that would suggest lower order numbers, no?

 

[MrTuna]

Demand is very high for the Model Y. There are literally only hundreds of cars on the road, it is way too early to talk about demand.

I suspect that the car can probably tow far more than the listed 3,500 lbs if you are not towing on the highway and/or over long distances. For example, if you have a large boat you need to move around town to put in the water. The motors are known for their torque. The Model X is shown towing an airplane, and realistically any car can exceed its towing capacity at a lower speed.

Isn't braking the bigger deal? And hills?

Tow 10,000 pounds on a flat.. ok.

Now go up a 13 degree hill with 10,000 pounds.

Now head down a 13 degree hill towing 10,000 pounds, and try to stop.

A tow rating is what you are "rated" for in all of these cases.

 

[rxlawdude]

When making such posting, could you provide any values? [snipped]

Why are you conflating the MY's load capacity (car plus passengers and cargo) that is tire/wheel dependent with the additional 3,500lb TOWING capacity?

 

[azjohn]

3500 lbs is a solid rating for a car which is what MY is

 

[LevelHeaded]

I think OP is talking about payload capacity (886 lbs for passengers+cargo) along with tow capacity.

comparison:
X3 1095+ lbs
XC60 1291+ lbs
Model X 1347 lbs
Q5 1422 lbs
RDX 955 lbs

 

[Nuclear Fusion]

I think OP is talking about payload capacity (886 lbs for passengers+cargo) along with tow capacity.

comparison:
X3 1095+ lbs
XC60 1291+ lbs
Model X 1347 lbs
Q5 1422 lbs
RDX 955 lbs

Yes, that was what I was referring to
You put 4 fat blokes in the MY & you are in trouble
And if your are utilitarian, the MY makes no sense against the CT

 

[LevelHeaded]

Yes, that was what I was referring to
You put 4 fat blokes in the MY & you are in trouble
And if your are utilitarian, the MY makes no sense against the CT

It’s definitely on the slightly lower end for its size, and very low for a “7 seater.” But then again, it can hit 60 in 3.5 seconds

 

[Nuclear Fusion]

It’s definitely on the slightly lower end for its size, and very low for a “7 seater.” But then again, it can hit 60 in 3.5 seconds

Do you think smart air suspension would help in any way?

 

[azjohn]

I think an air suspension would make a difference with the 4 "fat blokes", sounds like a TV sitcom...

 

[MY-Y]

I think OP is talking about payload capacity (886 lbs for passengers+cargo) along with tow capacity.

comparison:
X3 1095+ lbs
XC60 1291+ lbs
Model X 1347 lbs
Q5 1422 lbs
RDX 955 lbs

Your GAWR and tire ratings are the most important. If you are towing a heavy trailer with a vehicle this size, it would be safer if the trailer had brakes. Without trailer brakes, keep in mind that your car's braking capacity is increased only by the tongue weight (more weight on the car tires). Thr free rolling weight on the trailer tires (80%-90% of the trailer weight) just shoves you forward with no on-car weight help. It also tries to jackknife if you have to brake hard in a turn.

Personally, I'd be leary of towing more than 2000# on a MY without trailer brakes.

 

[Dcd7041]

I am little confused with the inconsistency of the information on payload and towing capacity.

On my Model Y body, near passenger seat it says GVWR = 5302 lb - this is well established

On another label on the body it says "the combined weight of occupants and cargo should never exceed 375 kg or 826 lb". Keep in mind I have AWDLR with tow hitch.

First of all, where do you guys get 886 lb information from? My label is explicitly saying the payload capacity is 826 lb. Can someone else check their car's label and if it says 826 vs 886. I do have Tow Hitch, maybe that is the reason of reduced capacity? Btw, 826 lb payload capacity is for 5 people is a joke. Divide 826 by 5, that is an average weight of 165 lb. I checked and average American man is 191 lb and average American women is 159 lb. So this car is not for 5 American adults. And forget about cargo, none.

Then there is a question of if towing vertical weight is included in 826 lb. The user manual implicitly suggests that it does. This is taken from the user manual page 72 "Carrying a significant amount of equipment, passengers, or cargo in the tow vehicle can reduce the towing capacity it can handle, which also reduces the tongue weight. Maximum towing capacity is calculated assuming the GVWR (Gross Vehicle Weight Rating) is not exceeded"

If this is true, then once you put 4 people into car, Model Y practically can't pull anything. Say 4 not so light buddies going to fishing who are 180 lb each plus their gear of 20 lb, that takes 800 lb of the capacity, leaving 26 lb to vertical weight of the boat + tow carrier, which can only tow 10x of the vertical weight of 260lb towing weight, which is not meaningful.

Another scenario of towing at full capacity for 3,500 lb, with 350lb tongue weight, 866lb-350lb tongue weight gives you 516 lb for passenger and cargo, which is not even three people. So realistically if you are towing something, the car's capacity is practically two passengers.

Alternative explanation is that towing capacity is in addition to the 826 lb of payload capacity, which would certainly give more utility but there is no official writing anywhere that suggest this is the right explanation. In fact, user manual suggests the opposite without being explicit.

Anybody have some authoritative knowledge on these numbers and how the math works. Or anyone can point to some written evidence somewhere that Model Y has some utility in it? As I read it, it certainly doesn't have much utility, other than fun to drive 4 passenger electric car with pretty much no cargo carrying ability.

 

[Doc Brown]

I am little confused with the inconsistency of the information on payload and towing capacity.

On my Model Y body, near passenger seat it says GVWR = 5302 lb - this is well established

On another label on the body it says "the combined weight of occupants and cargo should never exceed 375 kg or 826 lb". Keep in mind I have AWDLR with tow hitch.

First of all, where do you guys get 886 lb information from? My label is explicitly saying the payload capacity is 826 lb. Can someone else check their car's label and if it says 826 vs 886. I do have Tow Hitch, maybe that is the reason of reduced capacity? Btw, 826 lb payload capacity is for 5 people is a joke. Divide 826 by 5, that is an average weight of 165 lb. I checked and average American man is 191 lb and average American women is 159 lb. So this car is not for 5 American adults. And forget about cargo, none.

Then there is a question of if towing vertical weight is included in 826 lb. The user manual implicitly suggests that it does. This is taken from the user manual page 72 "Carrying a significant amount of equipment, passengers, or cargo in the tow vehicle can reduce the towing capacity it can handle, which also reduces the tongue weight. Maximum towing capacity is calculated assuming the GVWR (Gross Vehicle Weight Rating) is not exceeded"

If this is true, then once you put 4 people into car, Model Y practically can't pull anything. Say 4 not so light buddies going to fishing who are 180 lb each plus their gear of 20 lb, that takes 800 lb of the capacity, leaving 26 lb to vertical weight of the boat + tow carrier, which can only tow 10x of the vertical weight of 260lb towing weight, which is not meaningful.

Another scenario of towing at full capacity for 3,500 lb, with 350lb tongue weight, 866lb-350lb tongue weight gives you 516 lb for passenger and cargo, which is not even three people. So realistically if you are towing something, the car's capacity is practically two passengers.

Alternative explanation is that towing capacity is in addition to the 826 lb of payload capacity, which would certainly give more utility but there is no official writing anywhere that suggest this is the right explanation. In fact, user manual suggests the opposite without being explicit.

Anybody have some authoritative knowledge on these numbers and how the math works. Or anyone can point to some written evidence somewhere that Model Y has some utility in it? As I read it, it certainly doesn't have much utility, other than fun to drive 4 passenger electric car with pretty much no cargo carrying ability.

Payload capacity includes the tongue weight of the trailer. So - yes, if you have 350# in tongue weight - that reduces payload capacity by that much.

GVWR is the curb weight (weight of car) plus payload (people and things). The user manual says this: Maximum towing capacity is calculated assuming the GVWR (Gross Vehicle Weight Rating) is not exceeded - because they want to make sure you don't have 4 fat blokes in the car and try to tow a #3500 trailer - that would exceed the GVWR.

Here's a good summary of what the numbers mean: How to Measure Towing Capacity, GVWR, GCWR - Towing 101

 

[Dcd7041]

Thank you for the info. I looked at bunch of sites as well and it all says GVWR includes Tongue weight, which is not great for Model Y.

On the other hand, for Model Y, Front+Rear GAWR is well above GVWR. Looked at two other cars and their F+R GAWR is nearly equal to GVWR, unlike Tesla.

Model Y, GVWR is 5,302 lb vs Front GAWR 3,004 lb + Rear GAWR 3,606 lb, combining the two, 6,610 lb. That is 1,300 lb more than GVWR. That is atypical to the two other cars we have where both numbers are nearly the same.

So the question is why is Tesla has a pretty high axle+rim+tire weight capacity but a very low GVWR. Given high GAWR, in the case of overload based on GAWR rnumbers, nothing bad is going to happen to axles, rims or tires because they will be well below the limit Tesla says. We all know that it has pretty high horse power and torque, so weak engine can't be the reason. So what will happen in the case of an overload? Is Tesla being conservative on GVWR and if so why?

 

[Dcd7041]

Just to give more info, I just looked bunch of other cars GAWR to GVVR ratio. Model Y is a clear outlier. Why Tesla thinks Model Y axle/rim/tires can handle so much yet the car can't. Could there be an error on Tesla side?

 

[BLW2]

excellent info, thanks all. I have been wondering about the "rest of the story". I've not seen the axle ratings before now.
I've been searching and keeping my eyes peeled for any reports of actual towing experience, since I'm really wanting an EV, and have been focused on the Y for a bit now. The few reports so far have been relatively light.

I weighed my boat recently, and while the total weight gives plenty of margin I think at just under 3,000#, the tongue weight is a bit heavy...so I have been really hoping to find some reports, or better still some youtube videos pulling something that is on the upper end to better get a feel for how it handles with a real load.

Why the GVWR has been de-rated compared to the total axle capacity?.... my guess is brakes, primarily. I do believe brakes are a primary limitation for a lot of vehicles. Only speculating, but I'll bet there's some sort of test or standardized measure...
IF that's true, I'll bet that it does not take regen braking into consideration, which based on my test drive is bound to help significantly..but I'm thinking that Tesla probably would not be able to count on that for a rating.

I'm really hoping to find some more towing reports soon. I'm itching to pull the trigger. My towing is all very low speed and local so I'm very confident that the Y could handle my needs, but I also never know....might decide on rare occasion to tow much further...and even more importantly I don't want to be unsafe.

 

[Dcd7041]

excellent info, thanks all. I have been wondering about the "rest of the story". I've not seen the axle ratings before now.
I've been searching and keeping my eyes peeled for any reports of actual towing experience, since I'm really wanting an EV, and have been focused on the Y for a bit now. The few reports so far have been relatively light.

I weighed my boat recently, and while the total weight gives plenty of margin I think at just under 3,000#, the tongue weight is a bit heavy...so I have been really hoping to find some reports, or better still some youtube videos pulling something that is on the upper end to better get a feel for how it handles with a real load.

Why the GVWR has been de-rated compared to the total axle capacity?.... my guess is brakes, primarily. I do believe brakes are a primary limitation for a lot of vehicles. Only speculating, but I'll bet there's some sort of test or standardized measure...
IF that's true, I'll bet that it does not take regen braking into consideration, which based on my test drive is bound to help significantly..but I'm thinking that Tesla probably would not be able to count on that for a rating.

I'm really hoping to find some more towing reports soon. I'm itching to pull the trigger. My towing is all very low speed and local so I'm very confident that the Y could handle my needs, but I also never know....might decide on rare occasion to tow much further...and even more importantly I don't want to be unsafe.

You might be right. Perhaps "brakes" is the only explanation left. But why put weaker brakes in Model Y in comparison to car's GAWR capacity? They clearly did not do that in other Tesla's.