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Israel/Hamas conflict
- Thread starter Buckminster
- Start date
You are talking about Hamas and Gazan's actions on 10/7 - right?
If Hamas weren't so cowardly to build all of their military infrastructure, tunnels and dungeons under hospitals and schools, it would be easier for Israel to try and retrieve their hostages and require less destruction.
You very well know that is not what I meant.
But for clarity, can you please confirm that you believe following is normal:
- Killing 25k people, 3/4s are women and children
- Let's not forget close to 10k people under the rubble, presumed dead
- Cutting off food, water, fuel therefore starving 2.2million people
- In the process, causing amputations on children without anesthesia
- Leveling pretty much the whole city, including hospitals, churches, mosques, schools, UN designated areas
- Almost forgot, pregnant women who don't have enough to eat, pregnant women delivering babies in these conditions (no medication, no anesthesia), pre-mature babies suffocating to death, new born babies who don't have access to food
Forgot - you are still denying and/or downplaying the atrocities on 10/7.
Even if we are to believe Hamas' death toll reports (which are completely suspect), there is still a much lower Civilian to Combatant death rate in Gaza compared to the historical standard reported by the UN for Urban warfare. Look at what Assad/Russia and Iran has done to numerous Sunni cities in Syria. Look at what the US and Iraqi military did in Fallujah and Ramadi.
But yeah - it is not normal for a combatant to continue to pick fights with a much stronger foe and then hide behind women and children and under hospitals and schools.
Just imagine if Hamas stopped firing rockets and released the hostages?
jabloomf1230
Minister of Silly Walks
That's true if you believe the Old Testament in a literal fashion. The sons of Noah were Ham and Shem. The decendents of Shem were known as Shemites (or Semites) and included Abraham. Abraham's son Isaac's decendents include the Jewsish people, Jesus and hence early Christians too. Abraham's son Ishmael's descendents included northern Arab tribes and eventually Muhammad. Monotheism is just one big unhappy family.
It's really not that difficult - criticizing Israel is not anti-Judaism. (Using the term Anti-Judaism as antisemitism is a term that doesnt make sense to me, as I'm from a non-Jewish semite background)
Likewise, criticizing Saoudi Arabia or Iran doesn't equal islamophobia, or criticizing the church doesnt make one an Anti-Christian.
Likewise, criticizing Saoudi Arabia or Iran doesn't equal islamophobia, or criticizing the church doesnt make one an Anti-Christian.
What about people who ONLY criticize Israel and deny and/or whitewash the much worse actions of Israel's neighbors?
OK, so as I understand it we are supposed to treat Israel as its neighbours? Just another Middle-Eastern s******e and no more claims that it's a Western style democracy and no more big military aid packages?
Additionally, no journalist gets fired from Western TV stations for calling these countries what they are, very much unlike what happens when Journalists call out Israel.
Plenty of people care and are well aware of the fact that all common principles of self-determination and decolonisation were violated when Israel was founded.
Given that ISIS was only able to establish itself after the US destroyed Iraq and turned it into chaos, the West should better not start finger pointing.
The victims in Syria, Mayanmar, and Yemen don't have Tiktok accounts telling anyone who the algorithm sends videos to about their oppression. When Israel invaded Lebanon in the 1978 there were protests in Lebanon, but I don't recall any in the west. I don't recall any protests in the west over Israeli actions in response to the terrorist attack at the 1972 Olympics.
If the Houthis get busy on social media, we will probably see the same sort of protests over what's happening in Lebanon.
Pretty sure the "common principles of self-determination and decolonization" were violated for the 900,000 Jews that were persecuted or otherwise forced out of Egypt, Iran, Iraq, Yemen, Algeria, Jordan and Morocco. All these Jews (many who lived in their homes for hundreds of years) were all deemed "colonizers" and ethnically cleansed along with the other non-Muslim religious minorities.
Are we sending these Jews back to their Muslim/Arab homelands in addition to sending the rest to Germany and Poland?
Israel needs better Chinese social media propaganda platforms so the young and stupid don't race out into the streets to support Islamists and anti-Semites?
I'd argue Israel needs much more than that - including US Ivy League universities that are not infested with Leftist anti-Semites like we have seen at Harvard, MIT, Yale and Penn poisoning the minds of another generation with their noxious DEI and "anti-colonial" curriculum.
Have you not seen the Houthis' crazy over the top propaganda videos? They take it to a whole new level in terms of showmanship!
Israel was not only encouraging those Jews to come to Israel, as it was eager to increase its Jewish population, it was also happy to kick up trouble in Arab countries:
Hamas has curated their videos to appeal to left leaning kids in the west. Over the top propaganda is not going to move the needle.
The reason these kids are pro-Palestine is because of the PR effort. If neither side was on Tiktok pushing videos created to engender sympathy for the Palestinian cause, most GenZ would probably be completely ignoring the current conflict. Prejudice doesn't come out of nowhere. It's learned.
Israel could make some videos explaining their position, but they are starting from way behind the Palestinians on that battlefield.
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Well, what a shame that Israel can't just get away with just about everything nowadays any more, isn't it?
Even at the time it was quite embarrassing for Israel to have its Mossad agents get arrested in Norway, after killing an innocent Moroccan waiter, though.
As bizarre as it sounds, perhaps we do need some Chinese social media platforms, as Western media routinely cave in to pro-Israel lobbying pressure, provided they don't self-censor right from the start.
ABC boss rejects claims of external pressure to sack Lattouf
Managing director David Anderson says there was no undue influence in the decision to dismiss Antoinette Lattouf, and maintains he has confidence in the ABC’s complaints-handling process.
That was a terrible snafu by Mossad in Norway. But "Operation Wrath of God" demonstrated to the world that Israel would hunt down terrorists that murdered Israelis to the far corners of the globe. You don't castrate an Israeli Olympian and get a free pass. Black September found that out the hard way.
Both the various terrorist groups, Muslim state actors, the Israeli government, as well as some small groups in Israel (such as those building settlements in Palestinian territory) have all done wrongs here. I've said that from the start of this thread.
On the one hand Israel does have the right to defend itself, but they are also playing into Hamas' hands with the way they are conducting this war which has resulted in high civilian casualties in Gaza. Hamas deliberately situated all their assets near civilians so they couldn't be attacked with Israel's aerial assets without causing a lot of civilian casualties. Israel is reluctant to put their troops at high risk, so they are relying on air attacks.
All this triggered carefully cultivated triggers in western youth.
Hamas' use of civilians as human shields is despicable. Israel's over reliance on aerial attack was a great way to keep down Israeli casualties, but resulted in a lot of Palestinians paying a high price.
As I've said several times, neither side has clean hands.
I'm pointing out the weapon Hamas has used to manipulate opinion in the west. Propaganda is pretty much always despicable, but it's an effective weapon when used skillfully. If it isn't countered with some skill, a flank is being left open.
You cannot defend yourself from the people you occupy, as per ICJ.
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Or worse, if British-Israeli historian Avi Shlaim is correct, Mossad might have been responsible from the bombings in Iraq that contributed to Jews leaving that country. Of course, there were other issues, but it is a scary thought that Israel would do such a thing...Israel was not only encouraging those Jews to come to Israel, as it was eager to increase its Jewish population, it was also happy to kick up trouble in Arab countries:
Avi Shlaim says he has 'proof of Zionist involvement' in 1950s attack on Iraqi Jews
British-Israeli historian claims in new memoir that Mossad carried out bombings to drive Jews out of Iraq and hasten their transfer to Israel
www.middleeasteye.net
