J1772 charging blues

[TEG]

Lloyd - your links are a bit messed up. I think you meant this one:
SAE J1772 Socket
There have been some reports on this forum of order delays and other irregularities with that seller, so keep that in mind.

 

[Doug_G]

Wow Lloyd your link got mangled. SAE J1772 Connector

So $475.00 gets you both ends. Interesting.

I see there's also a $225 J1772 to NEMA 14-50 adapter box. That's a nice economical solution, as long as you paid attention to the available current.

 

[Doug_G]

Here's another supplier of adapter gadgets: J1772 Adapter

 

[doug]

My only point above was that there's not much value to a J1772 to California plug pigtail for the UMC (as vfx was suggesting) unless it somehow passes the pilot signal, which it likely would not. And if you were using the UMC anyway, a J1772 to NEMA 14-50 adapter (which is available since it's something other EVs might use) would probably be a better solution.

Modifying the Tesla connector end of the UMC to make a J1772 to Tesla adapter is a great solution if you're up to it. Just keep in mind that it is likely only rated for 40 Amps continuous. So if you come across the rare J1772 EVSE that can supply 70 Amps, you should manually limit the Roadster to 40 Amps.

(I believe the Mennekes connector has some passive encoding that communicates the current limit of the cable. Not sure if J1772 includes that since they expect the cable to be permanently connected to the EVSE.)

 

[vfx]

My only point above was that there's not much value to a J1772 to California plug pigtail for the UMC (as vfx was suggesting) unless it somehow passes the pilot signal, which it likely would not. And if you were using the UMC anyway, a J1772 to NEMA 14-50 adapter (which is available since it's something other EVs might use) would probably be a better solution.
...)

Cost of a Tesla plug or socket and which is solution is "better" aside, I'm unclear how using a UMC (or Martin RF) setup with a J to CA pigtail is not doable. The 14-50 has (I believe) a diode and resistor inside. If you make a second pigtail (or solid adapter) with a J to a socket 14-50 then it should be possible to make the J to CA connector pigtail with the same inner circuitry.

I know it would not reduce the amount of pigtails one bit but they at least would all have the same CA plug on the end and look neater as a package.

 

[doug]

Yes it's possible.

 

[vfx]

Yes it's possible.

And cheaper.

Just not as powerful.

 

[donauker]

Certainly possible and rather inexpensive, but unless Tesla adds a 30 amp charge rate selection to the firmware you are stuck with only being able to use 24 amp charging at all the 30 amp charge spots.

 

[Lloyd]

Lloyd - your links are a bit messed up. I think you meant this one:
SAE J1772 Socket
There have been some reports on this forum of order delays and other irregularities with that seller, so keep that in mind.

From what I understand the ITT/Cannon plug (J1772) is the only one that has been UL certified to 75 amps.

 

[vfx]

Certainly possible and rather inexpensive, but unless Tesla adds a 30 amp charge rate selection to the firmware you are stuck with only being able to use 24 amp charging at all the 30 amp charge spots.

Good point for level 2. Seems like a reasonable firmware upgrade request.

 

[ChargeIt!]

Well it appears that older Teslas need a firmware update to work with the Nissan Aero J1772 charging stations. As of late May the firware was not available and I was just told it was being worked on.

I did find a Columb and Eaton brand chargers and both worked with my #255 Roadster. They were both limited to 30 amps but that is far better than the 110V adapter.

1.5 Roadsters (VIN<=500) with recently released firmware 3.6.7.11 now work with the AeroVironment ("AV") EVSEs typically found at Nissan Dealers. The Roadster automatically respects the AV EVSE's 30A pilot signal. :smile:

 

[S-2000 Roadster]

Certainly possible and rather inexpensive, but unless Tesla adds a 30 amp charge rate selection to the firmware you are stuck with only being able to use 24 amp charging at all the 30 amp charge spots.

What I find confusing is that people talk about 50-amp at RV parks and with the UMC, but codes specify that the maximum current draw is 80% of that, or only 40 amps. The Tesla Roadster screen shows the actual current, 40 amps, not the rated current of 50 amps. I discovered this the hard way after building a NEMA 14-50 extension from my breaker box that was literally capable of carrying 50 amps, only to be disappointed when I "only" got 40 amps on the Tesla screen.

So, when the discussion turns to J1772 charging and 30-amp capable systems, are we actually talking about 24 amps on the Roadster screen anyway? 24 amps happens to be exactly 80% of the 30-amp rating, so I don't think Tesla Motors needs to change the firmware at all.

Now that there are several electric car brands on the road and various charging stations, I hope that there is a standard for discussing current ratings versus actual current draw.

 

[richkae]

Scott451 posted this:
An EV is allowed to draw 80% of the breaker rating as a continous load. Since the breakers are all increments of 10A, using a 30A,40A,50A,60A breaker gives 24A, 32A, 40A, 48A charging current. The UL (Underwriters Labs) screwed this all up when the refused to certify the ITT cannon J1772 plug for 32A [ref?]. They only allowed 30A, so now we're stuck with a bunch of 30A chargers on a 40A circuit.
In this thread:
Tesla/J1772 adapter available from Tesla's website
Because of that, it is hard to know whether a 30amp charger is really a 30 amp breaker with a 24 amp max, or a 40 amp breaker with a 30 amp max.
If it was 32, it would be obvious. I think you can usually assume its a 40 amp breaker with a 30 amp max.

 

[vfx]

That would be hard to change. Everyone talks about 100 percent. Asking the world to all change to 80% is not likely.

 

[scott451]

So, when the discussion turns to J1772 charging and 30-amp capable systems, are we actually talking about 24 amps on the Roadster screen anyway? 24 amps happens to be exactly 80% of the 30-amp rating, so I don't think Tesla Motors needs to change the firmware at all.

J1772 30A charging refers to the "pilot" signaled by the EVSE to the charger(in the roadster). Using the Tesla J1772->Roaster charging cable will allow you to charge at the full current signaled by the EVSE. (in this case 30A). Using an eBay J1772->NEMA 14-50 connected to your UMC/RFMC will only allow you to charge at 24A because the VDS does not allow 30A. I think Tesla should add 30A to the VDS. But until they do, [SHAMELESS PLUG]The Telsa Tattler allows you to set 30A.[/SHAMELESS PLUG]

 

[TEG]

J1772 30A charging refers to the "pilot" signaled by the charger. Using the Tesla J1772->Roaster charging cable will allow you to charge at the full current signaled by the charger....

Er., to the charger... (with the charger being in vehicle of course.)

 

[dpeilow]

Does the Tattler allow you to set any current with a granularity of 1A?

19A would be a useful number over here, for example.

 

[doug]

Does the Tattler allow you to set any current with a granularity of 1A?

I asked that question before and the answer is yes. As to why Tesla doesn't allow that level of control (say with a deeper advanced user screen) is still an open question.

 

[S-2000 Roadster]

That would be hard to change. Everyone talks about 100 percent. Asking the world to all change to 80% is not likely.

That's fine with me, but the confusing thing is that the Tesla Roadster display shows the actual current, which is less than or equal to 80% of the rated current. So, I'm really just suggesting that Tesla educate their owners on the fact that they'll never get 100% because (U.S.) code never allows 100%.

 

[bgrenell]

UMC to J-1772 to charge a BMW i-3

UMC to J-1772 to charge a BMW i-3 I have a roadster Sport and just purchased a BMW i-3 which uses J-1772 charging. I wonder if I can buy an adapter for my UMC to J-1772 to let me charge the BMW without having to invest in a 40 amp (like Clipper Creek) charger for the BMW. I only need to charge one at a time, and actually have an extra UMC if the adapter is more permanent, or difficult to swap. Any body know the scoop on this? Hasn't somebody wanted to charge their model S from a UMC? I gather the standard is the same....