Kevin Sharpe's decreased Roadster range

[wycolo]

Much ado about nothing. :frown:
--

 

[Kevin Sharpe]

Where can I send money so Mr. Sharpe can buy that ICE?

I don't need money but please donate to ZCW who do a great job;

How to Donate - Zero Carbon World

 

[Krugerrand]

I don't need money but please donate to ZCW who do a great job;

How to Donate - Zero Carbon World

Thanks for the suggestion, but I'd rather my money go to have you out of the Roadster (and any future BEV).

 

[Kevin Sharpe]

Thanks for the suggestion, but I'd rather my money go to have you out of the Roadster (and any future BEV).

That will be difficult, we will have access to several PHEV in the next few months and two custom EV's :smile:

 

[tom66]

Still worth asking the question. If the Roadster had a sheet failure and the range of 20 miles (as has happened before) would this be covered, or be considered a "loss of range" and not covered? I do think Tesla need to clarify what is and what is not a failure, for example more than x% loss per 50,000 miles.

 

[Kevin Sharpe]

If the Roadster had a sheet failure and the range of 20 miles (as has happened before) would this be covered, or be considered a "loss of range" and not covered?

I have repeatedly asked Tesla for a guide to what is and what is not acceptable degradation. They have been unable to provide that information and I can therefore only assume that the extended warranty ("ESA") requires a total failure before they will repair the battery.

 

[Yggdrasill]

Pretty much all gradual degradation is acceptable degradation. What's not acceptable is sudden faults, like cell reversals, shorts, breaks, etc. This will be experienced as a sudden loss of a noticable amount of range.

(That's for the Model S, at least. I don't know if the warranty terms of the Roadster are worse.)

 

[Kevin Sharpe]

(That's for the Model S, at least. I don't know if the warranty terms of the Roadster are worse.)

Neither the Roadster or Model S have a degradation warranty.

 

[Yggdrasill]

Neither the Roadster or Model S have a degradation warranty.

The Model S doesn't have a warranty for gradual degradation. I don't know the exact wording of the Roaster warranty, but if the word "gradual" isn't included, pretty much nothing is covered.

 

[Kevin Sharpe]

if the word "gradual" isn't included, pretty much nothing is covered.

Correct, both the Roadster and Model S only have warranties that cover faults, not capacity reduction.

 

[breser]

The Model S doesn't have a warranty for gradual degradation. I don't know the exact wording of the Roaster warranty, but if the word "gradual" isn't included, pretty much nothing is covered.

The word gradual is NOT a warranty term. Here's the warranty text again:

The Battery, like all lithium-ion batteries, will experience gradual energy or power loss with time and use. Loss of Battery energy or power over time or due to or resulting from Battery usage, is NOT covered under this Battery Limited Warranty. See your owner documentation for important information on how to maximize the life and capacity of the Battery.

The word gradual is used in the explanatory text that describes that batteries have degradation. The text that describes what is covered is in the sentence that follows that. That sentence disclaims all warranty for degradation and does not limit this disclaimer to gradual losses.

 

[ElSupreme]

The word gradual is NOT a warranty term. Here's the warranty text again:

The word gradual is used in the explanatory text that describes that batteries have degradation. The text that describes what is covered is in the sentence that follows that. That sentence disclaims all warranty for degradation and does not limit this disclaimer to gradual losses.

To me that explanatory text would be a definition/qualifier of "Loss of Battery energy or power over time or due to or resulting from Battery usage".

 

[dsm363]

Tesla battery range degradation forcing return to gas

Correct, started in 2012 when the charity ZCW required charging stations for it's donation programme.

Correct, I purchased a beautiful sports car that happened to be electric. I repeat what I said earlier, you will find lots of Model S owners in the same boat. I had a heated conversation with a new owner yesterday who insisted the "infinite mile" warranty covered battery degradation (which is what I also thought until very recently).

Ok. So you bought an exotic sports car with a new technology for propulsion and didn't do any research on it and now you are angry at Tesla because you're not getting the range you were not even explicitly promised? Just want to be clear.

Again, how did you not know batteries don't last forever with the companies you run?

 

[Kevin Sharpe]

Just want to be clear.

You seem to have problems comprehending what I'm telling you so I won't bother telling you again.

I suggest you read the Sunday Times this weekend and then the articles in other publications over the next few weeks. I understand that at least one will contain an interview with a Model S owner who didn't understand that an "infinite mile battery warranty" doesn't include degradation.

 

[breser]

To me that explanatory text would be a definition/qualifier of "Loss of Battery energy or power over time or due to or resulting from Battery usage".

I'd agree more easily to this interpretation if the second sentence was written like this:
"Such loss, is NOT covered under this Battery Limited Warranty."

Kevin's situation might be instructive here if we knew what was in the Roadster warranty he has on this respect and if his loss could be considered gradual. Based on what I've seen that seems somewhat iffy and it seems that Tesla seems to think it's normal (which I'd guess implies gradual).

 

[Kevin Sharpe]

Kevin's situation might be instructive here if we knew what was in the Roadster warranty he has on this respect and if his loss could be considered gradual.

Tesla BATTERY ESA.pdf

I will need to look out the original warranty because that might be different and covers the period when Tesla undertook the Battery Repair that started this whole discussion.

 

[breser]

Tesla BATTERY ESA.pdf

I will need to look out the original warranty because that might be different and covers the period when Tesla undertook the Battery Repair that started this whole discussion.

That ESA has the same language, but it also limits them to fixing failures, which is defined as a complete failure. I wonder if Tesla intended the Model S warranty to not be limited to complete battery failures, but copied that language without making that clear.

 

[Yggdrasill]

• "Failure" means a complete failure of the Battery due to defects in material or workmanship of any Battery manufactured or supplied by Tesla that occur during normal use. Failure does not include the gradual reduction in operating performance of the Battery due to normal wear and tear.

(...)

Tesla agrees to repair or replace the Battery as required due to a Failure.

(...)

This Battery ESA does not cover certain parts or any Battery damage or malfunction directly or indirectly caused by, due to or resulting from normal wear or deterioration, abuse, misuse, negligence, accident, lack of or improper maintenance, operation, storage or transport (...)

Ouch. That doesn't cover much. The way I read it, you need to have a complete failure of the battery for Tesla to need to do anything. And they don't cover any kind of damage due to use. I assume "complete" failure means that the car basically can't go any further, type: "Pull over now."

 

[dsm363]

Neither the Roadster or Model S have a degradation warranty.

And you knew this buying the car, right?

 

[ItsNotAboutTheMoney]

That sentence disclaims all warranty for degradation and does not limit this disclaimer to gradual losses.

Wrong. It disclaims normal wear and tear, degradation from time and usage (!= use). But that line would not, for example, disclaim degradation caused by a problem in the TMS.