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Key Fob To The Rescue?
- Thread starter PeteInCA
- Start date
diamond.g
Active Member
RTPEV
Active Member
- The phone key does not work reliably for everyone...meaning that when you walk up to the car there is a pretty good chance that it's just going to sit there and not unlock for you. Now you need to get the key card out and use it instead.
- And oh, by the way, now I have to carry a key card with me everywhere. Not a huge deal, but with all the other cards in my wallet and limited space, adding one pretty much means I'll have to decide which one I'll have to take out and try to remember to bring when I need it.
- And that's great that you only had a fob with you in your pocket, but those many people you are wondering about probably already have keys they are carrying around anyway. On my key ring now is a fob I use to get into my office building, my house key, my office key, my office desk key, a key I use to get access to a cabinet I need for a certain volunteer work I do, my mailbox key and a key to my personal safe at home. An extra fob is no big deal at all.
- And how many times have I gone out to the garage to either plug the car in, or grab something out the car only to have to come back in because I didn't grab my phone to get to the car. When I had a fob, it was always just hanging on the key hook next to the garage door.
All fair points. Though I question if the issue is phone based, or Tesla based, because while I only have 3+ weeks of ownership so far, not once have i have an issue with the phone opening the car. I do have office keys, but i leave them in my laptop bag, and my house has smart locks, so i don't need to carry anything so it works for me. Anyway, always good to have options, but chalk me up on the side of loving only having two things to put in my pockets daily (wallet and phone). My only issue will be if they do away with phone support and completely move to a FOB, which I wouldn't anticipate happening...
RTPEV
Active Member
No, the phone is here to stay for sure. Fob will at most be an option for people that want (or need) it.
As for the technical reasons behind the phone not working, I think there are many. The best theory I saw brought up is that when the phone is just marginally out of range, you will get a lot of Bluetooth communication errors, and the phone OS will ban the app from using Bluetooth. For those who park their car in a certain proximity to where they set their phone, this can be a big problem! Usually a Bluetooth toggle is required to get it working again (although for some reason, in my case, that wasn't sufficient and I actually had to do an Airplane mode toggle). There are probably several other possibilities like the OS putting the Tesla app to sleep on your phone and it didn't wake up properly, etc. Some of these things are in Tesla's control, some art not.
I will say this, my personal experience is that at first my phone was probably 80-90% reliable, but this still meant that once every 5 or 10 times I approached my car I would have to either use the key card or reset Bluetooth/Airplane mode. Now after the both a Tesla app update and a S/W update in the car, my phone has been 100% reliable (knock on wood) save for the occasional 2-3 second delay before it unlocks. So in my case, Tesla actually fixed it.
But I've seen plenty of other people that had reliable phone key operation UNTIL they got this software version.
Main takeaway: don't be quick to discount issues that other people are having or even personal preferences that don't match yours. Sure, there may be the occasional whiner about some minor feature or glitch that really is no big deal. Phone as key is not one of those. This is a major problem for many people.
Oh, and by the way, I just remembered my all important 5th reason for a fob: I would really like a way to open my frunk with a simple press of a button (something I can probably do without even removing the fob from my pocket. Too clunky to get my phone out, unlock the screen, get into the Tesla app, press the frunk open button and confirm, all while my hands are full with whatever it is I am wanting to put into the frunk. Fortunately, however, I have noticed that I don't have to actually wait for the the app to "Wake Up" before the frunk button works...
+1.
The other thing I wondered about was going low battery on the phone. When that happens, doesn't it turn off app refresh to save battery life? Does that do anything to the Tesla app unlock door?
RTPEV
Active Member
Damn I jinxed myself. Twice in the past 2 days I have had to wait 20-30 seconds for the car to recognize my phone.
Yes, your OS may put the app to sleep (you can override this behavior) but yes it will run down your phone battery more rapidly.
No phone of ours worked for us. None. Android 5, 6, and 8.1. Same symptoms.
The problem doesn't seem to be the bluetooth though as i see that app shows the car is connected, and when i tap unlock in the app, it unlocks the same instant. But it doesn't unlock with the door handle even that bluetooth is clearly connected. No matter how long i wait. And the car is not in a sleep mode (since when i yank the handle it shows me screen prompting to use the card).
Strange thing it always works at home as expected, but never elsewhere. And i can't seem to find what seems to be the differentiating factor. Since it is clearly not a bluetooth problem, it seems like a firmware thing.
The only two differentiating factors that i see is 1) the location (the car knows of course when it is home since i designated it as one), and 2) at home we have wifi, and outside we have 4g lte internet. I also tried with and without 4g, it doesn't seem to make a difference.Location service on phone is enabled. every possible battery optimization i can find is disabled. But nothing helps. and at home it works with battery optimizations on, not a factor at all.
At this point in time everything seems to be pointing to a bug in car's software. It clearly sees the key but doesn't want to unlock itself.
The problem doesn't seem to be the bluetooth though as i see that app shows the car is connected, and when i tap unlock in the app, it unlocks the same instant. But it doesn't unlock with the door handle even that bluetooth is clearly connected. No matter how long i wait. And the car is not in a sleep mode (since when i yank the handle it shows me screen prompting to use the card).
Strange thing it always works at home as expected, but never elsewhere. And i can't seem to find what seems to be the differentiating factor. Since it is clearly not a bluetooth problem, it seems like a firmware thing.
The only two differentiating factors that i see is 1) the location (the car knows of course when it is home since i designated it as one), and 2) at home we have wifi, and outside we have 4g lte internet. I also tried with and without 4g, it doesn't seem to make a difference.Location service on phone is enabled. every possible battery optimization i can find is disabled. But nothing helps. and at home it works with battery optimizations on, not a factor at all.
At this point in time everything seems to be pointing to a bug in car's software. It clearly sees the key but doesn't want to unlock itself.
It's certainly possible that it would happen. I am noticing that my phone discharges at a higher rate than it used to. I don't know if that's due to giving the app all sorts of permissions about running in the background. As soon as I get a keyfob, I'm delinking my phone from BLE. I'll keep it for remote (WiFi/LTE) access though. That's still useful to remotely lock or check status for other things.
one more fact i have mentioned in another thread. I only have problems when outside. In the garage i never get problems with unlocking and walking away lock, works like a clock every time. Only two factors seem to be different -- 1) both my phone and the car are on the same local network at home, and (2) the car knows that it is home via gps (if it is some special check there).
As for outside, at some point i thought that network still plays a role, but disabling/enabling data on the phone makes absolutely no difference.
Also after taking off all possible "smart" optimizations i could find about the app, google framework and play services, i notice that I am able to unlock the car without going into app by simply waking up the phone. As soon as i wake the phone up I see that the tesla status changes to "attempting to connect" and reconnects within a couple of seconds, after that the door lock works.
so the phone standby still has something to do with it. There is a setting in battery management that causes the phone to optimize stand-by, which i suspect may turn the blutooth off if there's no active connection. However, it doesn't affect the "connect-on-wake" behavior whether it is on or off, it seems.
I guess Elon was thinking every person who wants Tesla got to be an Apple user as well... or at least some Galaxy with Android 7-8 on it... wrong. Another highly elitist opinion.
As for outside, at some point i thought that network still plays a role, but disabling/enabling data on the phone makes absolutely no difference.
Also after taking off all possible "smart" optimizations i could find about the app, google framework and play services, i notice that I am able to unlock the car without going into app by simply waking up the phone. As soon as i wake the phone up I see that the tesla status changes to "attempting to connect" and reconnects within a couple of seconds, after that the door lock works.
so the phone standby still has something to do with it. There is a setting in battery management that causes the phone to optimize stand-by, which i suspect may turn the blutooth off if there's no active connection. However, it doesn't affect the "connect-on-wake" behavior whether it is on or off, it seems.
I guess Elon was thinking every person who wants Tesla got to be an Apple user as well... or at least some Galaxy with Android 7-8 on it... wrong. Another highly elitist opinion.
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CjRichMar
Member
The biggest problem with this sentiment is that people who have this position assume that their experience is everyone else's experience. I've had a Model 3 for 8 months now, and my phone as key has worked maybe 50% of the time. It's great that this works for some people all the time. But that has not been the universal experience with the phone-as-key. Even the key card doesn't always work. What Tesla has done is replace a solution that worked all the time, except in cases where the hardware was broken, and replace it with two systems that kinda-sorta work. This is a classic example of why you shouldn't fix something that isn't broken. And it'd be nice for the community as a whole if people for whom the phone-as-key system does work would recognize that their experience is not everyone's experience.
DLM270
#7773
Every phone key thread really needs this pasted at the top.
It would also be nice if some people don't dismiss that the large majority don't have an issue, and actually prefer it, and just don't post happy posts on their phone key. Just because the vocal minority is the loudest, doesn't mean they're the largest. And frankly, and this will get a bunch of panties ruffled...it isn't the Tesla. It's possibly your phone, but most likely user error.
Maybe you can come to my house and tell my spouse that the reason she can’t reliably drive our fancy new car is user error?
Her phone is linked to the car, and in theory the car should recognize it. Sometimes it does. Sometimes...it just doesn’t. Pulling the phone out and futzing with the Bluetooth is not a popular option when you’re late for work and the kids are driving you nuts.
Her, today: “take this piece of *sugar* back.” It’s fair to say that she’s not impressed with this new innovation. And we’ve owned two different Model Ss and have been Tesla owners for 5 years, so we’re not exactly afraid of being early adopters.
I’ll pay a lot for a fob, as soon as it’s available.
Edit: ugh, hadn’t noticed the auto editing on the forum. That’s almost as lame as the dumb lack of a key fob.
CjRichMar
Member
Where is your proof of this large majority or vocal minority? Have you taken exhaustive surveys? Done statistical analysis? Your claims have no basis for validity other than that you want them to be true. And your argument ignores the fact that Tesla is actually doing something to remedy this. All of your supporting arguments are negated by the fact that Tesla is actually releasing a key fob. Do you really think they'd take the time to remedy an issue that they didn't reasonably believe actually existed? If Tesla, the company with all of the data, reasonably believed that this was either an issue with phones, user error, or only affected a small minority, they'd take steps to address those problems. They wouldn't develop a solution wholly unrelated to whatever you think the issue is. Your position has lots of holes. Maybe you should spend less time providing useless and baseless criticism and more time enjoying your new car.
You're basing it off of a bunch of people online complaining...basically the reason for the internet. That and cat pics. You have no data either. But I do know the rule of basic scientific deduction. If it works for some, and not for others, you look at the pieces that are not controlled. And that is simply the phones and the people. Not the car. And if you go further, and hear people with iphones have no issues, and others do with the same exact, closed phone system...then what could possibly be the issue? Seriously, what is your theory about what it doesn't work for you? That your car is broken? I'm genuinely curious.
CjRichMar
Member
You should read what I said more carefully if you're "genuinely curious" about my experience. I will break down the important points for your sake:
1. You are assuming from your successful use of the phone as key that everyone has had the same experience that you have had.
2. I and others have not had that experience
3. You should not assume that "the vast majority" of people have had no issue with the phone as key, because you have no data to back that up.
4. Tesla is doing something to fix that, so it's probably safe to assume that this is not a tiny issue with a simple remedy.
This is all I have said. The only data I need is my experience, your comments, and common sense from being a Tesla owner for five years, all of which are readily available.
And since I am not an engineer, I couldn't tell you what's wrong with the car. But I can tell you that there have been two different phones, a Galaxy S8 and an iPhone X, tied to the car as keys and as entertainment devices. Both have had constant problems. The car has been in the shop numerous times and this issue has been brought up. It has been replicated, but not fixed.
So ask yourself this: is it more likely that your baseless theory about user error is correct, or that the combined efforts of Tesla engineers, Rangers, a Tesla Regional Director, and numerous owners of multiple Teslas have found a legitimate issue that needs to be addressed? There is a correct answer.
Basic scientific deduction would lead you to understand that there are a lot more variables than people, cars, and phones. There are many different operating systems and versions thereof, thousands of combinations of apps and settings configurations on all those phones, various implementations of accepted protocols, where those phones are carried, and several others. If your solution is that everyone has to set up their phone, apps, settings, the same as some accepted solution - then that really is a viable solution for everyone. And your still ignoring the point that @CjRichMar brought up, that Tesla is releasing a fob. Tesla has actual, real, verifiable data, in fact Tesla has all the data. If they think that it's worth their effort to design and distribute a fob then they have, most likely, decided that one is warranted. Regardless of any anecdotal evidence or wishful thinking any of us may have.
RTPEV
Active Member
If by user error you are meaning that it's up to the user to know how to set up the app and the phone's OS to not put the app to sleep, etc. then my response is that any device used to enter, start, and lock a vehicle should not require an in depth understanding of smartphone software. The design itself is flawed, even if it is in fact possible to set things up so that they work reliably (which by the way, is not the case for all circumstances).
As for the rest of your post, I don't think any advocates of fobs are suggesting that the phone key functionality should be taken away. If you are happy with it, then that's fine. But those that aren't as lucky have every right to demand a better solution without being told that we are just complainers and that it's somehow our own fault.
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