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Leaf vs 40kW Tesla race.

Discussion in 'Model S: Battery & Charging' started by richkae, Dec 22, 2011.

  1. richkae

    richkae VIN587

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    Assumptions:
    1. the Leaf has 100 mile highway range and the Model S has a 160 mile highway range at the same speed ( 55mph )
    2. Both cars start full.
    3. Chademo charges at 50kW and stops at 80% ( thus a Chademo charge gives the Leaf 80 miles of range )
    4. The Model S charges at 20kW and charge starts tapering at 85% linearly down to 100% ( so you stop charging shortly after current tapering starts unless charging a little more helps you avoid a stop )
    5. There is a 15 minute overhead to pull off the highway, into the charge area, start charging, walk back to your car when charging is done, disconnect and get back on the highway
    6. Charging stations are placed so you can stop at the optimal spot for each car along the highway but you keep 10 miles of safety when you stop to charge.
    ( So the Leaf stops at 10% and continues at 80% using 70 miles between charging stops )


    Clearly any race less than 90 miles is a tie.
    Any race between 90 and 150 miles the Tesla wins handily.

    To drive 230 miles the Leaf will take 250 minutes of driving time and 72 minutes of charging time.
    To drive 230 miles the Tesla will take 250 minutes of driving time and 75 minutes of charging time.

    To drive 270 miles the Leaf will take 295 minutes of driving time and 99 minutes of charging time.
    To drive 270 miles the Tesla will take 295 minutes of driving time and 105 minutes of charging time.

    However the Tesla can charge at a J1772 at its destination ( if one existed there ) and be ready to return home after a 2 hour stop if it arrives empty, the Leaf would take up to 8 hours on J1772 so to do a quick turnaround would require an extra 30ish minute QC stop.

    To drive 400 miles the Leaf will take 436 minutes of driving time and 168 minutes of time stopped to charge. Total time 604 minutes. 10 hours and 4 minutes.
    To drive 400 miles the Model S will take 436 minutes of driving time and 218 minutes of time stopped to charge. Total time: 10 hours 54 minutes

    Over a very long distance the Leaf advantage grows.


    If the charge stops are not optimal and you have to average 25 miles of range remaining when you stop:
    To drive 230 miles the Leaf will take 250 minutes of driving time and 87 minutes of charging time.
    To drive 230 miles the Tesla will take 250 minutes of driving time and 75 minutes of charging time.

    To drive 270 miles the Leaf will take 295 minutes of driving time and 114 minutes of charging time.
    To drive 270 miles the Tesla will take 295 minutes of driving time and 110 minutes of charging time.

    To drive 400 miles the Leaf will take 436 minutes of driving time and 183 minutes of charging time.
    To drive 400 miles the Tesla will take 436 minutes of driving time and 233 minutes of charging time.
     
  2. Rifleman

    Rifleman Now owns 2 Model S's!!!

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    In this hypothetical world where fast chargers are as common as gas stations, yes, the leaf has the advantage.

    In the real world, there will probably not a fast charger available for either car, and if there is, it is highly unlikely to be at the exact optimal location for that particular vehicle. On this hypothetical race, both cars would probably end up plugged into a 110v outlet some place, as it would be all that is available.

    Let face it, unless you live in a few small parts of California, you likely will never charge your EV at any place other than your house. There is literally only 1 public charging station in the city that I live in, and with the Model S, I could make a round trip to it and back from my house without needing a charge. Maybe someday there will be EV chargers on every corner, and we can safely take our vehicles farther away from home, but us early adopters cannot and should not count that that occurring within the lifespan of the batteries on the either the Leaf or the Model S.
     
  3. WhiteKnight

    WhiteKnight _____ P85 #549 _____ Sig Red / Sig White

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    I don't mean to be a jerk, because I think it's an interesting analysis, but my conclusion from your analysis is I don't want either car! No way I want to spend 10 hours on a trip that ought to take 5 hours!!!

    More rants at Highway Range Ignorance
     
  4. jcstp

    jcstp Active Member

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    this is not about the range and time it takes to travel!
    But about comparing abilities of Leaf and Model s 160 in roadtrips!
    Worth a separate thread!
    This can give people a tangible number and give sense or nonsense to choose a Nissan Leaf or Model S
     
  5. Robert.Boston

    Robert.Boston Model S VIN P01536

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    Nah, the Tesla will smoke the Leaf off the mark, with much better 0-60 and faster top speed. :wink:
     
  6. ChadS

    ChadS Petroleum is for sissies

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    I agree they are not everywhere yet. But Richkae lives near Seattle so he will have a LOT of choices. Here are some of the CHAdeMO stations that are planned for installation in his area before the Model S is available. (Note that this still does not include 20 or so in the Portland-Eugene area; I'm still trying to get a map for the EV Project installations there): MAP HERE.
     
  7. TEG

    TEG TMC Moderator

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    In practice, I don't view my LEAF as a Road trip car. If there were CHAdeMOs every 50 miles between SF and LA (although not expecting it anytime soon), I might rarely drive it down to LA, but otherwise it stays in the SF bay area. (Also, I don't think it would be a good idea to do repeated QC on a hot day...)

    With that said, I find mass deployment of J1772 allows me to extend the range slightly with opportunistic J1772. So, I may venture out a little further for lunch knowing that I will pick up a few extra miles while plugged in while I eat.
     
  8. richkae

    richkae VIN587

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    #8 richkae, Dec 22, 2011
    Last edited: Dec 22, 2011
    Suppose you have a 40kW car that can charge at 50kW up to 80% ( chademo ) and also suppose you increase your speed to 62mph
    ( I chose 62 instead of 65 because it reduces the number of charge stops in 2 of the 3 distances below )
    Same parameters as first scenario from above, you roll into charge stops with 10 miles of range left.

    To drive 230 miles this car will take 222 minutes of driving time and 53 minutes of charging time. Total: 275
    To drive 270 miles this car will take 261 minutes of driving time and 82 minutes of charging time. Total: 343
    To drive 400 miles this car will take 387 minutes of driving time and 143 minutes of charging time. Total: 530

    Model S with 20kW charging total times for each leg:
    To drive 230 miles the Tesla will take 250 minutes of driving time and 75 minutes of charging time. Total time 325 minutes.
    To drive 270 miles the Tesla will take 295 minutes of driving time and 110 minutes of charging time. Total time 405 minutes.
    To drive 400 miles the Tesla will take 436 minutes of driving time and 233 minutes of charging time. Total time 669 minutes.
    ( Note that driving at less than 55mph will actually reduce the total trip time )

    ICE car at 65mph:
    230 miles: 212 minutes + probable 15 minute gas stop. Total 227
    270 miles: 249 minutes + probable 15 minute gas stop. Total 264
    400 miles: 369 minutes + 15 minute gas stop. Total 384

    Don't buy a car you won't be happy with.
     

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