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leasing because of battery concerns

Discussion in 'Model 3' started by cfsaxNY, Mar 22, 2016.

  1. cfsaxNY

    cfsaxNY Member

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    I am considering reserving on March 31. I have never leased a vehicle, but is there an advantage here because of the battery? How long should this battery last?
     
  2. JER

    JER Member

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    If it's anything like the Model S battery, degradation won't be a major consideration.
     
  3. Zythryn

    Zythryn MS 70D, MX 90D

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    Ive recommended leasing for the first gen electrics to many people with battery concerns. It is a way to mitigate that risk.

    That said, Tesla has had 8 years of battery pack experience. As a Roadster owner I felt confident, and so we bought our Model S. Likewise I expect to buy our Model 3.

    The batteries in a Model S, have an 8 year warrantee and are expected to reach 70% of capacity in 12-15 years.
     
  4. jaguar36

    jaguar36 Member

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    Based on the experiences with the Model S I would expect about 1-2% loss of range per year/12000 miles or so.

    I would be far more concerned with reliability and out of warranty costs on the Model 3. I think that would make me lean towards leasing one.
     
  5. Snow Drift

    Snow Drift Member

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    Lease makes sense as we don't know where the technology will be in 3 years. The cars might not have good resale value.

    Also, if you aren't eligible for the Fed tax credit, (ie you don't owe taxes), by leasing the finance company gets the credit and they lower the cost of the lease...so, you make a lower monthly payment.
     
    • Like x 1
  6. Doug_G

    Doug_G Lead Moderator

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    Battery will not be an issue. I have a 2010 Roadster and the battery is working great.
     
    • Like x 1
  7. JER

    JER Member

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    You may want to review this survey data: Plug In America

    As you can see, degradation is slow; more than 90% capacity remaining after 100k miles is not unusual.

    If Model 3 follows Model S and X in pack design, replacement will be a simple procedure. Better, cheaper batteries are expected to be available by the time the fleet's range becomes a severe issue, though whether Tesla will make pack swaps easily available when it becomes relevant remains to be seen.

    If current Tesla vehicles have had any special depreciation issues, it's the cost of out-of-warranty repairs already mentioned, and obsolesence due to the rapid introduction of new features. (Buyers who missed out on Autopilot and Dual Motor can attest to the latter.)

    Whether these continue with the Model 3 is unknown, but I'd predect they'll at least be reduced in a simpler, lower cost design.

    In summary, I think the decision to lease or not should be similar to any other vehicle.
     
    • Like x 1
  8. eloder

    eloder Member

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    You just have to ask yourself this:

    Do you lease cars in the expectation that their engine will give out within a 5-10 year lifespan?

    Nissan--arguably the worst batteries out there--has publicly published battery failure data, and it numbers in the single digits per hundred thousand. Or something about 1/5th as common as a complete engine failure. Unlike Nissan, Teslas do not have egregious capacity degradation issues in hot climates because Tesla's have the most advanced temperature control systems out there. Even Leafs in cool climates go 100k+ miles with <10% degradation; a Tesla conditions the battery perfectly so that all batteries live in an ideal climate.

    Lithium ion tech is pretty darn reliable, and EVs have built-in safeguards to extend their life and cycles as far as possible.

    However a good reason to lease a Tesla is that their technology and improvements come at a breakneck pace; a car three years from now will be significantly better in many areas most likely.
     
    • Like x 2
  9. Trev Page

    Trev Page Member

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    I'm leasing because Tesla's technology moves very fast. Model S improvements over 3 years has borne this. I'm not worried about the battery and power train.
     
  10. AB4EJ

    AB4EJ Member

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    I worried about this too; but my worries have started to dissipate. The battery in my Toyota Highlander Hybrid seem to still be fine after 10 years; the battery in my Nissan Leaf have lost a little capacity, but not much over 3 years (something like 5 - 7 miles worth).
     
  11. PTADO

    PTADO Member

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    Can I ask someone to touch on this a little more? Has anyone with an S,X,R seen a significant decrease in payment amount in a lease with the tax credit? This is new to me.
     
  12. glhs272

    glhs272 Unnamed plug faced villian

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    As far as the battery goes, that would be the least of my concerns. Tesla has a good warranty on those. My Tesla Model S 60 with 70K miles has shown very reasonable degradation. About 3% degradation right now. The larger concern would be out of warranty repairs & technological obsolescence (which happens remarkably quickly with a Tesla). However, leasing gets real unattractive if you are a high mileage user like I am (i.e. 30K per year).
     
    • Like x 1
  13. Twiglett

    Twiglett Single pedal driver

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    I leased my Leaf just because I knew the resale was going to be bad and I also knew that I wanted a Model 3.
    But its pack is doing fine without me babying it.
    However I'll probably buy the Tesla because I know I'll hang onto it for a while.
     
  14. Tanquen

    Tanquen Member

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    So what's the extra cost to lease? If I buy a $70,000 Model S and get all the rebates and credits I'll pay $60,000. Not worrying about tax and everything to keep it simple. If I leased for 36 months I'll pay $33,566 and can walk away. They're not going to let me keep the car for $26,444, right? Would I not be able to get more than 26k for (in my case) a very lightly used 3 year old model S?
     
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  15. ELRev

    ELRev Member

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    From a link posted on one of these threads this morning, in the past, Tesla has provided (at least some Model Ses, not sure if there's a stipulation) a Trade-in/Resale Value Guarantee, stating that after 36 months, any car you purchased will have a guaranteed resale value of 50% the base model price + 44% cost of all additional options added. After 36 months, you have 3 months to sell the car back to Tesla for that amount. Assuming that applies to all Model Ses, if you bought a base Model S outright for $70k, you could trade it back in to Tesla after 3 years for $35k. Not sure how the rebate/incentives affect that number. Either way, seems well worth the investment by your numbers above.
     
  16. ohmman

    ohmman Maximum Plaid Member

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    Don't forget that the resale guarantee and lease terms will include caps on mileage; if you decide you want to road trip or just put a lot of miles on the vehicle, that can also be a limiting factor.

    I considered leasing and financing for the RVG but in the end decided I'll be buying my MX and M3 outright. I purchased my MS outright and it has depreciated about $30k over 2 years. Assuming linear depreciation (though it should be slower in the coming years), another $15k would bring me to $45k of depreciation over the 3 year RVG period, for a residual value of $55k. RVG on the vehicle would have made it worth less than $50k, and I would have been capped on mileage as well as having to pay finance charges along the way.

    I value mileage on a car since I feel that's the main utility of a vehicle. The higher the mileage, the better I've used it.. at least from my perspective. So having a cap is something I prefer to avoid.
     
    • Informative x 1
  17. Twiglett

    Twiglett Single pedal driver

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    The problem with leasing a Tesla is the tax credit. They reduce the cost of the lease by using the credit to increase the residual. So that means the lease is only useful if you definitely don't want to purchase it at the end.
    Of course you could lease then try to get a CPO Model 3 once the lease expires.....
     
  18. MiamiNole

    MiamiNole Member

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    Thanks for this! I made a topic specifically about a RVG program for the Model 3 and the consideration of buying vs. leasing. This was the exact response I was looking for! Will you be selling your MS for the MX or M3? Or will you be keeping it?
     
  19. MiamiNole

    MiamiNole Member

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    According to the OP, the whole point of the lease was not having to lock into the technology, so I'd assume that purchasing at the end is definitely NOT the intention.
     
  20. ohmman

    ohmman Maximum Plaid Member

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    I intend to have the M3 replace the MS, assuming it fits my needs. Otherwise I'll probably buy another MS once mine turns 4 years old.
     

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