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But you're wound up pretty tight, dude.
But you're wound up pretty tight, dude.
Yeah, just don't start checking into what all the other "Merikan" companies are doing to save a few bucks. Or do we have and "Merikan" companies any more? Oh, right. We do insurance and make laws. We're good.
This thread seems to have lost its way and is kind of bizarre. Why isn't it merged with the existing Bolt thread? Why did the OP start a separate thread for this anyway?
To be fair, quite a large number of people on this board are well informes about industrial combinations and Korean business. A number of us probably know about Samsung cars and their origin with the newly "Renaultized" Nissan and not a few of us can remember how Hyundai began their car business assembling Ford Cortinas, alter buying Mitsubishi drivetrains for their first really semi-Korean car.to make it clear this car at heart is Korean and to specifically discuss how this could end up with LG taking oven GM long term. not many people know how Korea competes. the use a system like Japan only way with way more nepotism and corruption. It is called CHAEBOL
First off...excellent post. Thank you. Replies in red
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To be fair, quite a large number of people on this board are well informes about industrial combinations and Korean business. A number of us probably know about Samsung cars and their origin with the newly "Renaultized" Nissan and not a few of us can remember how Hyundai began their car business assembling Ford Cortinas, alter buying Mitsubishi drivetrains for their first really semi-Korean car.
I would have to say the majority (more than 50%) of the people on this board have never heard/read the word Chaebol
One need not suggest that the Chaebol system is uniquely incestuous or corrupt. After all the Standard Oil Trust, Ford/Firestone/Edison all had similar characteristics in the USA.
Have to disagree with you here but will stay "on topic" for now
As for anybody taking over GM, following the massive US federal bailout is is far from clear that such a takeover would be antithetical to US interests if it were to take place.
What will happen this time is GM won't be bailed out and China and Korea will pick up the scraps. There is no appetite to bail out GM a second time as they never actually fixed the problem - pension liability. What we learned from Schwinn bicycles is relying on a sole supplier is reckless. Schwinn went from being the largest bicycle mfg to being nothing. Their supplier Giant became the largest bicycle mfg in the world. If GM does intend to have a sole supplier for their EV's, then it should at least be a USA company, so that in the event of a GM bankruptcy, the core/heart tech would not be up for bidding.
What manufacturer actually has the most pure US-origin content anyway? If one chooses to make that an issue it becomes instantly fraught because the industry is global anyway. The published national content rules are themselves quite difficult to understand and are not consistent anyway.
Tesla does. Outsourcing is not problem per se. Tesla outsources, but if you look at that list you will not find the heart of the car, the motor/inverter/battery/brain [what GM call the infotainment system] is made by Tesla.
Finally, LG battery production is being established in Michigan. Is not Michigan an American state? Should Chrysler be punished for having Italian control?
That plant is supplying the Volt. The next-gen Bolt cells are being made in Korea. Note the reason why LG cells are some the best in the world is a direct result of US Taxpaxers fund research at Argonne (LINK): LG Chem, Argonne sign licensing deal to make, commercialize advanced battery material | Argonne National Laboratory.
Also note all reverse engineering (what the DOE calls "benchmarking") of foreign EV technology done by the DOE that is fed to GM and Ford is now being diverted to LG by GM. They (GM) are selling us (meaning the USA) out with this LG "partnership", just like they sold us (the human race) out when they sold Ovonics to Chevron.
Note GM also sold us (the USA) out when they sold key neodymium mfg technology to China. We went from producing over 90% of neo magnets to under 1% in ten years:
Deng Xiaoping recognized the importance of rare earths to China’s future when he famously said in 1992 that “The Middle East has oil. China has rare earths.” In 1986, six years before, Deng had approved the National High Technology Research and Development Program, which according to China’s Ministry of Science and Technology, was established to help the country “to achieve breakthroughs in key technical fields that concern the national economic lifeline and national security; and to achieve leapfrog development in key high-tech fields in which China enjoys relative advantages.”
"So when GM put Magnequench on the block in 1995, who should come up with the $70 million asking price?[7] An investment consortium headed by Archibald Cox Jr. (son of the illustrious Watergate prosecutor) acting in concert with two Chinese state-owned metals firms, San Huan New Material and China National Nonferrous Metals Import and Export Company (CNNMIEC), which had been pestering GM to sell Magnequench since 1993.[8]
In the deal, the two Chinese firms took at least a 62 percent majority of Magnequench shares, with the senior Chinese investor taking over as the company's chairman and Cox as chief executive officer (CEO).[9] (In 2005, when Magnequench merged with a Canadian firm then known as AMR, Cox was listed as owning a significant minority share of AMR and was named AMR chairman.[10] )
The chairman of San Huan, a Mr. Zhang Hong, son-in-law of former Chinese "paramount leader" Deng Xiaoping (and now director of the Research and Development Bureau of the Chinese Academy of Sciences[11]), took over as chairman of Magnequench.[12] No doubt, Mr. Zhang's desire to acquire Magnequench was informed by the Chinese government's-and his father-in-law's-"Super 863 Program" to develop and acquire cutting-edge technologies for military applications, including "exotic materials."[13] The other Chinese investor in Magnequench, CNNMIEC, was at the time run by yet another Deng Xiao-ping son-in-law.
CFIUS's Role in Magnequench
But the United States government surely would not permit the Chinese simply to walk in and take over a significant U.S. high-tech firm, would it? Several sources indicate that CFIUS did reach a "mitigating agreement"[14] with Magnequench's new owners that the Chinese companies could not remove Magnequench's production equipment or jobs from the U.S. for a period of ten years.[15]
It is, however, an old Chinese tradition that "rules are made to be broken" (shang you zhengce, xia you duice). Magnequench's Chinese owners cleverly reinterpreted the CFIUS conditions. One Magnequench employee reported that shortly after the Chinese took over, Magnequench's neodymium-iron-boron magnet production line was "duplicated in China" and that, after the Chinese "made sure that it worked, they shut down" the U.S. production in Indiana. The employee added, "I believe the Chinese entity wanted to shut the plant down from the beginning. They are rapidly pursuing this technology."[16]"
For the record: I have done work for Korean, American, Japanese, Italian, German and UK (yes, there still is a UK car industry) manufacturers. In off topic discussions I am prepared to debate teh relativa merits of different industrial forms.
That said, we should be able to assess the Bolt and every other competitor, including Tesla, without resorting to ideological arguments, should we not?
We should not limit stifle the discussion by trying to stay "on-topic"
why is it that volt owners love to defend GM? the purpose of this thread to make it clear this car at heart is Korean and to specifically discuss how this could end up with LG taking oven GM long term. the GM powerpoint presentation file was named LGBolt.pptx which is pretty funny and telling at the same time. not many people know how Korea competes. a system like Japan only way with way more nepotism and corruption. It is called CHAEBOL
why is it that volt owners love to defend GM? the purpose of this thread to make it clear this car at heart is Korean and to specifically discuss how this could end up with LG taking oven GM long term. the GM powerpoint presentation file was named LGBolt.pptx which is pretty funny and telling at the same time. not many people know how Korea competes. a system like Japan only way with way more nepotism and corruption. It is called CHAEBOL
Didn't realize that I defended GM in anyway. You seem to have a lot of emotion over the fact that GM is relying on Korean parts for a large portion of the Bolt which will still be assembled (I believe) in the United States. How does that in anyway delegitimize the Bolt, which is really what you are trying to do? Some of the posts on the Bolt have bordered on hysterics. If in the end the Bolt is going to be a flop as many predict, why give it the time of day? OTOH I am not going to summarily dismiss GM and their ability to build and market a competitive EV based on the fact that they went bankrupt or are partnering with a foreign supplier. EV's are the future and I am completely confident that GM will be a major contributor as will Tesla, Nissan, Hyundai, BMW, Audi, VW, etc.
OK, but it's a discussion that doesn't really have anything to do with EVs, but rather a US manufacturing discussion. As far as a global switch to alternative energy transportation it doesn't make much difference (if your opinion of GM is true, it sounds like it might be a good thing).
On this note, I first learned of Samsung's cars via https://web.archive.org/web/20110910171548/http://www.businessweek.com/magazine/content/02_40/b3802159.htm when I used to have a 5th gen Nissan Maxima. Back then Renault Samsung Motors was building the 4th-gen Maxima in their Busan plant and selling it as the Samsung SM5.A number of us probably know about Samsung cars and their origin with the newly "Renaultized" Nissan
looks like same thing is happening to Tesla 3, it uses Korean tire,steel,self-driving system,display,steeling wheels and brakes, and list goes on and on..........and Japanese battery technology, and the best part is it will be made in China......I think you are very ignorant on how automotive industry is working these days...