Lifts, camber, and janky ass garbage

[Jigglypuff]

So I'm looking at Model Y lifts.
MPP has a lift that just moves mount points. This is an adequate change. However, it requires adjustable links in the rear to return camber to the rear and fix the geometry. The problem is, every single link I've seen, including the one from MPP, has a rod end in bending. They're all engineered like garbage. I don't feel like that's good enough for offroad usage or a strong speedbump hit.

Then there's the Unplugged offroad package. It's more than twice as much and involves coilovers of questionable parentage. Dual tube? Monotube? Rebuildable? They don't even have a photo of the actual suspension. What's included? No details. This does not fill me with confidence either. Spring rate? How much longer are the springs? Helpers needed? Just the coilovers or are other suspension bits included? Will I still need camber adjustment?

Our options are bad. I'd like a 3-4" lift, all said and done, with somewhat larger tires.

Did anybody actually buy the offroad kit?

 

[Jigglypuff]

Unplugged got back to me with a lot of info, though not everything I wanted.
They are monotube, single-adjustable shocks. That means rebound and compression damping are adjusted together.
Still unclear if added components are needed to fix camber.
Still unclear if their calculated lift of 4-6 inches includes larger tires.
Will email them again.

 

[Pianewman]

The title alone of this thread is challenging, and if I owned either of these companies, I'd tell my employees to steer clear. "...janky ass garbage..."????

You're asking questions that are far from mainstream. Both UPP and MPP specialize in modifications that go in the OPPOSITE direction of what you're seeking. They're far from selling "...janky ass garbage..."

It sounds to me like you're on your own. Even more so, considering the tone of your posts.

 

[Jigglypuff]

I'm not here to hear from the companies. I can contact them directly. I pointed out that they sell suspension components with rod ends in bending. This is just poor engineering that can lead to catastrophic failure, either bombing over a speed bump or a curb at a track. If my calling them out offends them, they should do a better job. Shims, bushings, bolts, and slots are some ways to deal with issues, but they're not offered for our cars as far as I can tell. Of course they can overengineer the rod end so that it's less likely to fail, but then you've got an overly heavy component in suspension, one of the places where weight matters the most. Better to do it right on the first place. But I guess the market bears what it doesn't know better about.

 

[tangible1]

you might want to check the YouTube videos posted by i1Tesla. He's using the lift kit and coilovers from MPP and looking succesfull.
also Teslarati article - Tesla with Off-Road Assist proves at home in Moab, and it’s not even the Cybertruck

 

[EchoDelta]

I'm not here to hear from the companies. I can contact them directly. I pointed out that they sell suspension components with rod ends in bending. This is just poor engineering that can lead to catastrophic failure, either bombing over a speed bump or a curb at a track. If my calling them out offends them, they should do a better job. Shims, bushings, bolts, and slots are some ways to deal with issues, but they're not offered for our cars as far as I can tell. Of course they can overengineer the rod end so that it's less likely to fail, but then you've got an overly heavy component in suspension, one of the places where weight matters the most. Better to do it right on the first place. But I guess the market bears what it doesn't know better about.

While I don’t think the tone is merited, I also assume you want to educate. Mind posting pics of the parts you refer to and show similar parts that do and don’t “end in bends”? And at what performance level/ amounts of stress it matters?
I assume most people here care about quality and can ask vendors the right questions if they know to.

 

[Jigglypuff]

Every single adjustable camber arm that uses threads to adjust, meaning threads in bending, is at best a poor design and at worse an accident waiting to happen. Camber should be adjustable with shock mounts, camber bolts, slotting, or shims. Conceivably, a company could simply make longer or shorter camber arms without the adjustability. Those could be light and strong, unlike these threaded jobs, which can be light or maybe strong.

 

[tangible1]

Every single adjustable camber arm that uses threads to adjust, meaning threads in bending, is at best a poor design and at worse an accident waiting to happen. Camber should be adjustable with shock mounts, camber bolts, slotting, or shims. Conceivably, a company could simply make longer or shorter camber arms without the adjustability. Those could be light and strong, unlike these threaded jobs, which can be light or maybe strong.

I suspect that the adjustable camber arms are sufficiently strong since they're being raced.
In my past racing I've done both top hats and threaded arms, never had any issues.
And few of these thread posters are contemplating racing. Maybe time trial (ooo time attack..), which is not racing.

 

[Jigglypuff]

I suspect that the adjustable camber arms are sufficiently strong since they're being raced.
In my past racing I've done both top hats and threaded arms, never had any issues.
And few of these thread posters are contemplating racing. Maybe time trial (ooo time attack..), which is not racing.

I did some searching and did come across some failed adjustable toe arms out there in internet land. I also asked a highly experienced suspension guy, and he said that while he didn't see them fail often, there were just much better ways to get the job done, and he'd never do one of these adjustable screw jobbies.

As for racing, well, there's racing and then there's racing. I think these would be fine for normal road use, but I'd be nervous about slamming over curbs at the track. I'd also be nervous about bombing over speed bumps on the road, TBH.

 

[tangible1]

I did some searching and did come across some failed adjustable toe arms out there in internet land. I also asked a highly experienced suspension guy, and he said that while he didn't see them fail often, there were just much better ways to get the job done, and he'd never do one of these adjustable screw jobbies.

As for racing, well, there's racing and then there's racing. I think these would be fine for normal road use, but I'd be nervous about slamming over curbs at the track. I'd also be nervous about bombing over speed bumps on the road, TBH.

you can find on the internet any 'evidence or report' you want to support your own opinion.
My opinion is my own, formed by extensive experience with suspension components, their adjustment, and 10 years of racing several Porsche cars.
Public street speed bumps and curbs don't exist on race tracks. You're welcome to inspect anyone's car parts (or brain) after dancing over them at speed.

 

[gt2690b]

you can find on the internet any 'evidence or report' you want to support your own opinion.
My opinion is my own, formed by extensive experience with suspension components, their adjustment, and 10 years of racing several Porsche cars.
Public street speed bumps and curbs don't exist on race tracks. You're welcome to inspect anyone's car parts (or brain) after dancing over them at speed.

i've heard several people do just the lift and just get an alignment.. maybe their camber does not move out of spec with just the lift?

 

[tangible1]

i've heard several people do just the lift and just get an alignment.. maybe their camber does not move out of spec with just the lift?

any change in ride height WILL change alignment. Adjustment is inexpensive, but....
The question is whether it needs to get beyond the range of adjustment provided by the stock links.
I don't know directly. I don't do lifts, but the guy at i1Tesla on YouTube HAS.

 

[gt2690b]

any change in ride height WILL change alignment. Adjustment is inexpensive, but....
The question is whether it needs to get beyond the range of adjustment provided by the stock links.
I don't know directly. I don't do lifts, but the guy at i1Tesla on YouTube HAS.

Yeah that was my question all right.. thanks for repeating it.

 

[tangible1]

Yeah that was my question all right.. thanks for repeating it.

so I guess you're not interested in contacting i1Tesla for an answer

 

[gt2690b]

so I guess you're not interested in contacting i1Tesla for an answer

No those guys are full of it.. they also probably don't know since they did like 50 mods to it . are they on the forum though?

 

[tangible1]

No those guys are full of it.. they also probably don't know since they did like 50 mods to it . are they on the forum though?

Umm, it's one guy. He's in Utah.

 

[gt2690b]

Umm, it's one guy. He's in Utah.

Uhh.. Brian's in north Carolina but who are you speaking of?

 

[Nakk]

MPP Lift Kit Install and Discussion.

 

[tangible1]

Uhh.. Brian's in north Carolina but who are you speaking of?

yeah, my very bad !!!
I guess I got distracted by Moab

 

[gt2690b]

MPP Lift Kit Install and Discussion.

1. That's for PUP .. not LR
2. What are your alignment results?