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Lifts, camber, and janky ass garbage

jsimon7777

Member
Feb 1, 2018
305
130
Castro Valley
So I'm looking at Model Y lifts.
MPP has a lift that just moves mount points. This is an adequate change. However, it requires adjustable links in the rear to return camber to the rear and fix the geometry. The problem is, every single link I've seen, including the one from MPP, has a rod end in bending. They're all engineered like garbage. I don't feel like that's good enough for offroad usage or a strong speedbump hit.

Then there's the Unplugged offroad package. It's more than twice as much and involves coilovers of questionable parentage. Dual tube? Monotube? Rebuildable? They don't even have a photo of the actual suspension. What's included? No details. This does not fill me with confidence either. Spring rate? How much longer are the springs? Helpers needed? Just the coilovers or are other suspension bits included? Will I still need camber adjustment?

Our options are bad. I'd like a 3-4" lift, all said and done, with somewhat larger tires.

Did anybody actually buy the offroad kit?
 
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jsimon7777

Member
Feb 1, 2018
305
130
Castro Valley
Unplugged got back to me with a lot of info, though not everything I wanted.
They are monotube, single-adjustable shocks. That means rebound and compression damping are adjusted together.
Still unclear if added components are needed to fix camber.
Still unclear if their calculated lift of 4-6 inches includes larger tires.
Will email them again.
 
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Pianewman

Active Member
Oct 28, 2020
1,369
930
Fort Worth
The title alone of this thread is challenging, and if I owned either of these companies, I'd tell my employees to steer clear. "...janky ass garbage..."????

You're asking questions that are far from mainstream. Both UPP and MPP specialize in modifications that go in the OPPOSITE direction of what you're seeking. They're far from selling "...janky ass garbage..."

It sounds to me like you're on your own. Even more so, considering the tone of your posts.
 

jsimon7777

Member
Feb 1, 2018
305
130
Castro Valley
I'm not here to hear from the companies. I can contact them directly. I pointed out that they sell suspension components with rod ends in bending. This is just poor engineering that can lead to catastrophic failure, either bombing over a speed bump or a curb at a track. If my calling them out offends them, they should do a better job. Shims, bushings, bolts, and slots are some ways to deal with issues, but they're not offered for our cars as far as I can tell. Of course they can overengineer the rod end so that it's less likely to fail, but then you've got an overly heavy component in suspension, one of the places where weight matters the most. Better to do it right on the first place. But I guess the market bears what it doesn't know better about.
 

EchoDelta

Supporting Member
Supporting Member
Mar 5, 2012
1,251
647
RootedNW.org, Seattle, Planet Earth
I'm not here to hear from the companies. I can contact them directly. I pointed out that they sell suspension components with rod ends in bending. This is just poor engineering that can lead to catastrophic failure, either bombing over a speed bump or a curb at a track. If my calling them out offends them, they should do a better job. Shims, bushings, bolts, and slots are some ways to deal with issues, but they're not offered for our cars as far as I can tell. Of course they can overengineer the rod end so that it's less likely to fail, but then you've got an overly heavy component in suspension, one of the places where weight matters the most. Better to do it right on the first place. But I guess the market bears what it doesn't know better about.
While I don’t think the tone is merited, I also assume you want to educate. Mind posting pics of the parts you refer to and show similar parts that do and don’t “end in bends”? And at what performance level/ amounts of stress it matters?
I assume most people here care about quality and can ask vendors the right questions if they know to.
 

jsimon7777

Member
Feb 1, 2018
305
130
Castro Valley
Every single adjustable camber arm that uses threads to adjust, meaning threads in bending, is at best a poor design and at worse an accident waiting to happen. Camber should be adjustable with shock mounts, camber bolts, slotting, or shims. Conceivably, a company could simply make longer or shorter camber arms without the adjustability. Those could be light and strong, unlike these threaded jobs, which can be light or maybe strong.
 

tangible1

Member
Jul 8, 2021
160
97
SoCAL
Every single adjustable camber arm that uses threads to adjust, meaning threads in bending, is at best a poor design and at worse an accident waiting to happen. Camber should be adjustable with shock mounts, camber bolts, slotting, or shims. Conceivably, a company could simply make longer or shorter camber arms without the adjustability. Those could be light and strong, unlike these threaded jobs, which can be light or maybe strong.
I suspect that the adjustable camber arms are sufficiently strong since they're being raced.
In my past racing I've done both top hats and threaded arms, never had any issues.
And few of these thread posters are contemplating racing. Maybe time trial (ooo time attack..), which is not racing.
 

jsimon7777

Member
Feb 1, 2018
305
130
Castro Valley
I suspect that the adjustable camber arms are sufficiently strong since they're being raced.
In my past racing I've done both top hats and threaded arms, never had any issues.
And few of these thread posters are contemplating racing. Maybe time trial (ooo time attack..), which is not racing.
I did some searching and did come across some failed adjustable toe arms out there in internet land. I also asked a highly experienced suspension guy, and he said that while he didn't see them fail often, there were just much better ways to get the job done, and he'd never do one of these adjustable screw jobbies.

As for racing, well, there's racing and then there's racing. I think these would be fine for normal road use, but I'd be nervous about slamming over curbs at the track. I'd also be nervous about bombing over speed bumps on the road, TBH.
 

tangible1

Member
Jul 8, 2021
160
97
SoCAL
I did some searching and did come across some failed adjustable toe arms out there in internet land. I also asked a highly experienced suspension guy, and he said that while he didn't see them fail often, there were just much better ways to get the job done, and he'd never do one of these adjustable screw jobbies.

As for racing, well, there's racing and then there's racing. I think these would be fine for normal road use, but I'd be nervous about slamming over curbs at the track. I'd also be nervous about bombing over speed bumps on the road, TBH.
you can find on the internet any 'evidence or report' you want to support your own opinion.
My opinion is my own, formed by extensive experience with suspension components, their adjustment, and 10 years of racing several Porsche cars.
Public street speed bumps and curbs don't exist on race tracks. You're welcome to inspect anyone's car parts (or brain) after dancing over them at speed.
 

gt2690b

Member
Jun 6, 2018
191
160
Colorado
you can find on the internet any 'evidence or report' you want to support your own opinion.
My opinion is my own, formed by extensive experience with suspension components, their adjustment, and 10 years of racing several Porsche cars.
Public street speed bumps and curbs don't exist on race tracks. You're welcome to inspect anyone's car parts (or brain) after dancing over them at speed.

i've heard several people do just the lift and just get an alignment.. maybe their camber does not move out of spec with just the lift?
 

tangible1

Member
Jul 8, 2021
160
97
SoCAL
i've heard several people do just the lift and just get an alignment.. maybe their camber does not move out of spec with just the lift?
any change in ride height WILL change alignment. Adjustment is inexpensive, but....
The question is whether it needs to get beyond the range of adjustment provided by the stock links.
I don't know directly. I don't do lifts, but the guy at i1Tesla on YouTube HAS.
 

gt2690b

Member
Jun 6, 2018
191
160
Colorado
any change in ride height WILL change alignment. Adjustment is inexpensive, but....
The question is whether it needs to get beyond the range of adjustment provided by the stock links.
I don't know directly. I don't do lifts, but the guy at i1Tesla on YouTube HAS.
Yeah that was my question all right.. thanks for repeating it.
 

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