Chademo requires a small computer to convert the vehicle language to the charger language (explained simply) which is why it costs $450. Again, from my understanding, the car should be able to directly communicate with a CCS1 fast charger with just software update and a simple adapter similar to the J1772 adapter. No middle man (computer) required.
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Chademo requires a small computer to convert the vehicle language to the charger language (explained simply) which is why it costs $450. Again, from my understanding, the car should be able to directly communicate with a CCS1 fast charger with just software update and a simple adapter similar to the J1772 adapter. No middle man (computer) required.
Tesla decided new electronic hardware was needed - most likely they didn’t have chips suited to pulling digital signaling off of the high voltage DC wires safely.
They elected to put the new hardware into a new version of the charge port and install it on every car going forward instead of making it a smart adapter, possibly to solve the problem of where the adapter gets power for its computer from and possibly because of the charging situation in the EU.
The part you aren’t understanding is that CCS uses a totally different signaling than J1772, just like Superchargers do - but not the same one.
J1772 is a simple, almost one way communication. The EVSE provides 12V on a proximity pin and a pulsing duty cycle on the pilot pin based on the Amperage available. The car pulls the pilot pin voltage down when it wants power, and limits the power it takes based on the pilot duty cycle.
If that duty cycle is 5%, it means the J1772 is actually a DCFC station, and the car has to initiate digital communication. That’s the end of the J1772 communication, and the start of direct digital communication using either CANBus (Superchargers) or PLC HomePhy (CCS).
So you are saying that even with an adapter, because Tesla uses CAN to communicate vs PLC with the CCS that another Chademo style connector would be required? Or can the vehicle get a software update to be able to communicate?
Eno Deb
Active Member
This is incorrect. For example, the Electrify America CCS chargers support up to 150kW on 400V and up to 350kW on 800V.
The question is whether the US Model 3 is capable of CCS-style PLC signaling. The European Model 3 supports CCS natively, so we know that Tesla has had the technology since at least late 2018. But given that the US Model 3 came out over a year earlier, it's possible that it doesn't have the required controller hardware.
I’m saying that Tesla changed the charge port hardware on EU cars to add new electronics to enable the dumb CCS adapter to work there.
They could presumably do the same thing in the US. What I don’t know is whether they changed the US charge ports at the same time they changed the EU ones.
I think it is very unlikely that cars built before May (when the EU charge ports were revised,) have the hardware needed to support CCS with a dumb adapter, and I don’t know if newer cars do or not.
Eno Deb
Active Member
Just as a note, the May timeframe only applies to Model S/X. They started building European Model 3s with native CCS support sometime in the second half of 2018, so they must have had a CCS-capable controller by then.
??? The first deliveries I know of were in February of this year:
Tesla makes its first Model 3 deliveries in Europe
Eno Deb
Active Member
Very hard to find specific ratings but from what I have found, CCS 1 tops out at 80kw with CCS 2 at 350kw per the standard. Electrify America must be using a different connector (CCS 2) for their higher kw stations which I have yet to see any of these stations installed. That or I am not understanding what I am reading correctly... Only the 50kw stations seem to be present in my general area (via plugshare).
"The Combined Charging System (CCS) covers charging electric vehicles using the Combo 1 and Combo 2 connectors at up to 80 or 350 kilowatts"
The connectors are the same, but AFAIK everything above 50 kW for CCS requires liquid cooling.
I think EA is the only company that’s installing 150 and 350 kW CCS stations in the US in any numbers at the moment.
Eno Deb
Active Member
You can request the actual CCS specification here:
CCS Specification
No. There is no difference in power levels between the European Combo 2 plugs and the Combo 1 plugs used in the US. 150kW/350kW CCS charging was specified in 2015.
Interesting. So I guess CCS 1 can support up to 350kw. The CCS 2 adapter in the EU works on older Model S and X vehicles since all Model 3s have the CCS 2 as standard no? Did those vehicles get any hardware upgrades to communicate with non tesla chargers? Or is that adapter only meant to connect older cars to newer superchargers with CCS2?
The EU adapter purchase requires a charge port retrofit for cars built before May 1st 2019.
My understanding is that the retrofit required for older EU cars is the fitting of an additional ECU that speaks PLC. The charge port itself is unchanged. The Raven cars have the proper communications chip integrated into the electronics already and the owner can just buy the passive CCS adapter.
Tesla joined the CharIN (CCS) alliance so long ago that I presume that the North American Model 3 had the PLC chip designed in from the start. However, it remains to be seen if this is actually true.
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