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Lit Motors C-1

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I studied a little bit this gyroscope matter. Actually for space applications permanent magnets are used for gyroscopes. Now depending on the strenght of the magnetic field created by a permanent magnet you could also get an amplification of the output current. Where is the loss? In the fact that after some years the permanent magnet will lose its magnetization. But in the case of space applications (and I think also of the C1) the magnet keeps magnetized for many years.
 
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Gyroscopes require an input of energy to keep spinning. If you use magnets to create a magnetic field and pull power from it that would create drag on the gyroscope, and without additional energy input it would slow down or stop spinning, hence a loss. If there were no loss what you are describing would be a perpetual motion machine, which does not exist.
 
IMO the magnet is separated from the spinning motion of the gyroscope. Yes it's true that you need energy to keep the gyroscope spinning, but then that spinning can be used to generate power. You only have to couple a solenoid placed around the spinning masses with a magnet. So there are two subsystems completely independent one with respect to the other, one generating the spinning motion of the masses inside the gyroscope and the other generating power thanks to the spinning motion of a solenoid placed around the spinning masses and coupled with the magnetic field of the magnet. Just my opinion.
 
Raffy, if that gadget actually generates energy then it clearly violates the laws of physics. It's not a matter of opinion, it violates one of the most fundamental laws: conservation of mass and energy.

Fundamentally, if you draw energy from the gyroscope you will slow it down. It's just like the regenerative braking in a Tesla.

I think you may have misunderstood its purpose.
 
Yeah, you don't get to have an opinion on the laws of physics :wink: The gyroscopes are there to actively stabilize the vehicle, that takes external power, which means they are a drain on the system. Putting a magnet and solenoid in the system to generate power means you induce drag on the gyro, which means more power will have to be fed into it to keep it spinning, and because of energy conversion laws there will always be a loss. Your idea is the equivalent of putting a windmill on top of a car while you're driving, attempting to generate more power than is lost. Can't happen.
 
A good clue is on the C1 video. It shows the parking stands. If the gyroscopes were producing energy, they wouldn't need the stands because the gyroscopes would be running all the time. If you convert the gyroscope to a generator (or partial generator), it will just slow down faster requiring more energy input to keep spinning.
 
In Electronics there are active devices (transistors) amplifying the input signal. In this case the amplification is got thanks and at the expence of the continuous current biasing the transistor of course. Now I am not an expert of Mechanics and maybe that the gyroscopes are not active devices but I think that at least they can be useful to recover some energy like in the case of regenerative brakes.
 
Flywheels can be used as a short-term energy storage device. They are somewhat limited in that you can only spin them so fast before they blow apart, and they gradually lose energy due to friction. They also affect the driving dynamics of the vehicle because they are after all essentially gyroscopes. But they have been tried as a sort-of regenerative braking device.

I think in this case they are being used simply to keep the vehicle vertical.
 
I would like to report this paragraph took from the Litmotors site:

The C-1 uses high-torque in-hub electric motors, saving space and providing a responsive driving experience. These motors regenerate energy while braking, using a KERS to store the energy kinetically in the gyro flywheels.
 
Sure, you can store energy in a flywheel. So what? You can also store energy in a battery. In either case regen provides minimal amounts of range, almost none in long distance steady speed driving where you do very little braking.
 
Who would want to drive a motorcycle that can't lean into curves?! And at significant energy cost too. I would guess six times the loss of a Segway. Even with a sidecar at least the passengers lean into curves. Ok, now I want to drive this thing, I really do!!
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Considering that the range of an EV like the C1 with a 8KWh battery in normal conditions would have been 80 to 100 miles, while Litmotors in its Official Site claims 200 miles range and the Litmotors CEO claims even 220 miles range I think that the regen due to giro flywheels is huge.
 
@gregincal

Maybe that the C1 leans into curves but with a small angle of leaning IMO. In fact the gyroscope is always working to avoid that the C1 leans too much.

Actually the other way around, the gyro's are computer controlled to cause exactly the right amount of lean needed:

The gyros are controlled by the vehicle, allowing it to lean itself into and out of turns
 
Actually the other way around, the gyro's are computer controlled to cause exactly the right amount of lean needed:

The gyros are controlled by the vehicle, allowing it to lean itself into and out of turns

Cool! :cool:

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With reference to the matter of the regenerative task of the gyroscopes I put this question to the Official Site of Litmotors on Facebook:

Can you give us some details about the gyroscopes? Are the gyroscopes useful to store energy in the battery while driving?

And the answer that I got from Litmotors was:

We can't reveal many details about the gyros at this time, but yes, they are used as part of a patented KERS system to store energy.
 
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Raffy, how much energy do you think is available from regen, especially on a long trip when you almost never use the brakes? The only regen available is from slowing down the vehicle. The gyros/flywheels can store some of that, at a loss of course, and nothing more.
 
@JRP3

Of course I cannot answer exactly to your question. As you have seen I put a question to Litmotors to try to understand how the gyros regen mechanism works and they answered in an unclear way for obvious reasons. I can only make a reasonment of deductive kind. With an 8 KWh battery you would get for an EV like the C1 a range of in the field 80 to 100 miles. On the contrary Litmotors claims 200 miles range and the Litmotors CEO claims even 220 miles range. So now there are 2 options:

1) The range claimed from Litmotors for the C1 is false.

2) The gyros regen mechanism of the C1 is revolutionary.

I think that we must wait some time to understand which of these 2 options is the right one but I think that the right option is #2.