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London Gateway Services ..32 Stalls
- Thread starter Alset2go
- Start date
Pikey
Member
WannabeOwner
Well-Known Member
Dunno about APP but there is a website in case you aren't aware of it:
https://supercharge.info/
and you might want to bookmark this thread as announcements normally get linked-to in that thread
UK Supercharger Site News
https://supercharge.info/
and you might want to bookmark this thread as announcements normally get linked-to in that thread
UK Supercharger Site News
Pikey
Member
This is the app I use..Not sure if it is the best
Currently in Florida so defaulting to US maps
Planned supercharger sites mean nothing. Some have been in planning for years. Some have been installed but not powered for months or more. Even once construction starts, there's no guarantee it will open in any timeframe if ever.
What you can be sure of is that they are not going to let lack of progress at installing superchargers stop them selling Model 3s. Supercharging shows every sign of going harshly backwards for existing owners over the next year - lots more cars, few new superchargers.
What you can be sure of is that they are not going to let lack of progress at installing superchargers stop them selling Model 3s. Supercharging shows every sign of going harshly backwards for existing owners over the next year - lots more cars, few new superchargers.
WannabeOwner
Well-Known Member
People have been saying for years that Tesla won't bother keeping up with supercharger rollout. Even if it was true it will make no difference - charging at Ionity is faster than Supercharger, and Ionity are planning to put hundreds across UK in next year or two, BP ChargeMaster likewise
Tesla have recently doubled the stalls at Oxford, Grantham, etc
New sites are 16 and 32 stalls - compare that with e.g. Ionity (UK sites so far have 4 stalls)
and that was at a time when owners used Supercharger for free, now M3 owners are paying for them so costs are covered.
Tesla retro fitted CCS cables to over 95% of sites in a couple of months and have then revisited 50% of all sites across Europe to retro fit the remaining stalls to CCS in a further couple of months
Doesn't seem to show signs of "going harshly backwards" to me.
And that is even if you don't take into account the profile of Model-3 vehicles being different. They have far better range than the Model-S/X 75 (150 miles = 75%, M3 LR= 55% - even SR+ is 70%) so more journeys that don't need charging, and for those that do faster / shorter charge - my home to Edinburgh needs 2 stops, in Model-S 75 its 43mins, M3 is half that time
Don't forget Model 3s don't have the 'free for life super charging', yes you get free referral miles but at 24p per kWh you want to save them for when you need them. Add future 200KW, through put should be massive.
I don't think I've spent longer than 20 minutes at any SC unless my toddler has needed to eat, even in our 75D X. I always seem to the last to arrive and frist out, I see plenty of people just sitting there sucking 'free' juice in S/Xs, whom am 95% sure actually don't need the range, but hey its free so why not??
'Free for life' Supercharging was the worst possible idea by Tesla interms of ensuring SC capacity, am glad its gone and hopefully never come back. Especially for private hire operators sitting at 2/4 point sites, its not fault of the individuals, who wouldnt want free fuel especially if it directly hits your own pocket, Tesla shouldn't have never offered it in the first place.
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WannabeOwner
Well-Known Member
Except there aren't any ... yet ... or more correctly I don't know of any in UK (happy to be enlightened
) except the two sites that Ionity have rolled out (Milton Keynes and Maidenhead)
fakoriginal
Member
How are you using the term 'rapid'? There are lots of 50KW CCS chargers about. Not supercharger speed, but not too shabby.Except there aren't any ... yet ... or more correctly I don't know of any in UK (happy to be enlightened
WannabeOwner
Well-Known Member
yes you are probably right about the word "rapid" as the actual terminology used is a minefeed as Vendors run out of superlatives. I was considering relative to Supercharger speed. Yes there are lots of 50kW chargers, what is needed is 100kW+ and ideally 150kW+ for Model-3 3rd party charging, and also the "plug-in, walk-away" slickness of Tesla Supercharger (which i think Ionity will achieve).
Supercharger (with SoC up to 60% or maybe a bit more) is 120kW or more, and thus 50kW takes at least twice as long to charge, plus 3rd party charging normally has some "hassle" getting connected - use APP to start the charge / whatever; I don't think it has ever taken less than 5 minutes, and on occasions up to 20 minutes whilst I retry, move to an adjacent stall, telephone to get them to start the charge remotely and so on.
So 20 minutes to stop at Supercharger will typically be pushing an hour at 50kW. Fine if you want to have a meal, but it drags on if you want to push on. For a 20 minute stop I find that I am a few minutes to walk to the "facilities", have a pee, get a coffee, walk back again, probably 10 minutes minimum, and I find in practice a 20 minute stop means the car is ready about the same time as I am. An hour is a chore - only times I've done that there has been an adjacent shopping mall and I've passed the hour on retail therapy.
fakoriginal
Member
Maybe we need a 'super' designation.
I figure for those journeys that I need to top up en route back to full I'm going to want/need at least a 40 minute stop to mentally recharge. You're looking at stopping after 250 miles of solid driving. That's a good 3 hours+. That's about the length of break I'd take currently on an ICE journey, or more likely stop after a couple of hours for 20 mins or so (so after only using ~50% battery).
It's never taken me more than a couple of minutes to connect to third party chargers in all of the years I had my leaf. The only substantial delay I've had has been due to having to wait for a free stall.
WannabeOwner
Well-Known Member
Yes, you are quite right. Important to consider two types of journey - there is the drive-charge-drive-charge journey, e.g. trans continental or from "Down South" to "Ip North"
where a decent "refresh" stop is prudent, and then the out-and-back where I stop at destination for a while. My out-of-range days are typically the out-and-back type where I have driven, say, 150 miles to destination. The stop is welcome, but I have also benefited from the time spent at destination so a shorter pee+coffee stop is what I am after. But for someone who has emails to do (which they would otherwise do on arrival at destination) the stop is "time neutral", and if travelling with Kids or Dogs the stop is unlikely to be anything like as short as 20 minutes I'll be interested to see how model-3 owners using 3rd party chargers get on. I imagine Leaf would be similar to Model-S plus CHAdeMO connector, and I have had reasonably good ones - typical would be my experience in York where there are three chargers side by side with no designation differentiating them (so working out which one I was connected to, on the APP, was iterative
) plus the Vendors Map (CYC) had the three chargers over a mile apart (which would have solved that problem! but actually wasted 10 minutes or more of my time trying to find where the thing actually was ... should have used Plugshare which of course had nice accurate crowd-sourced data). OTOH a visit to Ecotricity was different because I couldn't remember my password and used Guest mode on the APP instead which requires typing full address and email, and all credit card details, into the APP - fair enough, but first pump failed to charge; I wasn't concentrating so didn't see the error message, so I repeated that - failed again, but saw the error message; moved to second pump and that worked - but APP remembered nothing that I had typed, so had to enter all the data three times over and I can see from the Tesla logs that the time from selecting "P" to charge starting was a full 20 minutes I suspect that as a Leaf driver you were "tooled up" for 3rd party charging whereas I, as a Tesla driver (and maybe Model-3 users will be similar) am not. I use 3rd party charging relatively rarely, I'm probably 150 miles from home so unlikely to visit the same location often and thus they were usually unfamiliar and from a variety of vendors ... and actually my CHAdeMO charges have been quite rare, more typically A/C Type-2 destination-charging and that, for me, has been universally dreadful. 50% of the times the stall was bust / not working, and probably 20% of the time I failed to connect and phone call failed to start the stall remotely (despite the person expecting that they would be able to). RHS Wisley are you listening? You have two destination charger stalls, one was occupied and the second one has apparently not been working for over a year ...
Exactly. UK terminology has described 50kW DC as "rapid" and pretty much any typical AC charging as "fast" (although 43 kW AC is a tough one). I regard this terminology as a bit stupid, but use it. My point, being commented on, was that a Model 3 can use any 50kW (or faster) CCS DC charger (subject to contract), if the CCS enabled Superchargers are fully in use (which I expect to be pretty rare).
WannabeOwner
Well-Known Member
I struggle with it, relating name-to-product (probably my dyslexia). Coincidentally had an Email from BP Chargemaster saying they are installing contact-less-payment on all 50kW (Rapid) and 150kW (Ultra-fast) pumps ...
it also refers to retro fitting contact-less-payment to "50kW Ultracharge" pumps ... Sheesh
150kW is already obsolete, and the email didn't mention the new buzzword for 350kW chargers ... so I'm still lost.
Oh .. .and as a by-the-way it then lists that Contactless is 2 the price of Polar Plus and minimum charge of £1.50 - I wonder how that works when you get a 10 second charge and then an error message ...
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