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"Low Range" via software

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I assume the truck doesn't need any physical gear reduction due to the electric motor torque - however, I think it would be cool if they offer a 'low range' accelerator mapping to give the driver more control/finesse for offroading/rock crawling. An 'ultra chill mode' in the software.

Someone with some street cred tweet this to Elon for me :D
 
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I assume the truck doesn't need any physical gear reduction due to the electric motor torque - however, I think it would be cool if they offer a 'low range' accelerator mapping to give the driver more control/finesse for offroading/rock crawling. An 'ultra chill mode' in the software.

Someone with some street cred tweet this to Elon for me :D

That is a great idea, low range is useful for so much more than crawling too!
 
I think there will be some terrain modes which will change the throottle mapping along with the traction control etc. Like in a Disco.

I'd love to see some physical lockers on the DM version. Wouldn't be hard or add to much cost.
 
I think there will be some terrain modes which will change the throottle mapping along with the traction control etc. Like in a Disco.

I'd love to see some physical lockers on the DM version. Wouldn't be hard or add to much cost.

If they have a traction system like my LR3 (terrain response) lockers wont really matter. Once you get the hang of how the computer and traction system works the vehicle acts exactly like it has lockers. The difference is there is sometimes a slight hesitation on engagement. I have had the system in some pretty rough situations and it works so well i didn't even see the need for mud terrains, sometimes i think the all terrains are overkill other than the tougher sidewall.

I think Tesla can easily surpass the Land Rover terrain response system.
 
Traction control lag often causes wheels to dig in as the car looks for grip causing it to actually get bogged. The other item is that using the brakes for retarding does not allow as fine a throttle rpm control on a open diff as would a locker. Plus retarding is not as effeicient either as the brakes heat up instead of providing forward momentum. I've had everytype of traction control and have yet to see a zero latency version. I hope they get there with the CT or at least have limited slip diffs. This is only of importance if you actually have a decent set of off road tyres on first though, otherwise its just fighting the ryres anyway. Duellers seem to be a decent compromise for on and off road..
 
Traction control lag often causes wheels to dig in as the car looks for grip causing it to actually get bogged. The other item is that using the brakes for retarding does not allow as fine a throttle rpm control on a open diff as would a locker. Plus retarding is not as effeicient either as the brakes heat up instead of providing forward momentum. I've had everytype of traction control and have yet to see a zero latency version. I hope they get there with the CT or at least have limited slip diffs. This is only of importance if you actually have a decent set of off road tyres on first though, otherwise its just fighting the ryres anyway. Duellers seem to be a decent compromise for on and off road..

Agreed, no true replacement for a locker, they seem to be more of a burden on the LR3's and LR4's than they are worth the added traction.

Yes the duelers seem to be a good bridge between road a dirt. Most jeeps came factory with these. Im sure Tesla will figure out which off road biased tire reduces range the least if they are going to offer that as an option.
 
As much as Elon likes Auto pilot I can’t imagine it won’t have some kind of off road cruise like Toyota’s crawl control. As well as a virtual “throttle commander” for simulated low range. As much as he likes benchmarking Porsche’s for on road handling he should buy a Toyota Land Cruiser and benchmark it off road.
 
I am not as familiar with Tesla's motor configurations. Does the tri-motor configuration dedicate a motor for each rear wheel and ditch the rear differential?

I'd imagine the TM will have a motor for each wheel so they can electronically manage torque according to tyre grip. Without that I'd imagine it will be hard to reach the acceleration times quoted.

I'm hoping for a full suite of software driving aids for off road, including an "invisible floor" to see obstacles being driven over using cameras and computer vision to map terrain, ground type identification (sand, rock, mud, snow etc), to choose the right off-road mode for traction, bump/hole detection with recommended path, realtime suspension down-force modulation according to available traction, even at full articulation, side slope roll mitigation (self leveling), maybe even bunny hopping the suspension to un-bog itself. Another thing I'd like to see as well is gyro/accelerometer assisted steering, that keeps the vehicle going in the intended direction whilst dealing with ruts or sand drift by itself.

And on the subject of different accelerator mappings... add haptic feedback as well to it, so you can "feel" what power level the car is suggesting to use to make best progress. This would be good both on and off-road to increase range and feedback.
 
I am not as familiar with Tesla's motor configurations. Does the tri-motor configuration dedicate a motor for each rear wheel and ditch the rear differential?

There aren’t any published technical details yet - I’m pretty sure the trimotor Cybertruck is basically the Plaid powertrain that’s coming for the Performance S/X, possibly with minor changes to gearing and such for the Cybertruck.

We expect that to use a separate motor and gearbox for each rear wheel, allowing torque vectoring and just a little more power delivery right at the edge of traction (since you can push each wheel until it starts to spin instead of pushing both until the one with the least grip spins.)

Such a system could easily emulate a locking rear quite accurately up to the motor torque limits if so programmed, or they could just use the traction control to keep all the wheels pushing.

What I’m most curious about is which motors will be PMSR and which ones will be induction. I’m guessing it’ll be two PMSR rear motors and an induction front, which is better for performance but marginally worse for efficiency. They could also go all PMSR for ultimate performance and give up on putting anything to sleep during cruise.
 
There aren’t any published technical details yet - I’m pretty sure the trimotor Cybertruck is basically the Plaid powertrain that’s coming for the Performance S/X, possibly with minor changes to gearing and such for the Cybertruck.

We expect that to use a separate motor and gearbox for each rear wheel, allowing torque vectoring and just a little more power delivery right at the edge of traction (since you can push each wheel until it starts to spin instead of pushing both until the one with the least grip spins.)

Such a system could easily emulate a locking rear quite accurately up to the motor torque limits if so programmed, or they could just use the traction control to keep all the wheels pushing.

What I’m most curious about is which motors will be PMSR and which ones will be induction. I’m guessing it’ll be two PMSR rear motors and an induction front, which is better for performance but marginally worse for efficiency. They could also go all PMSR for ultimate performance and give up on putting anything to sleep during cruise.

I agree on the separate rear motor not needing a locker. Response time will be sufficient like that without using the brake modulation for traction control.

I thought the the motor setup was the other way around with the induction being better for power but the PM motor better for efficiency?
The PM in the front was meant to make it operate in FWD in cruise for better range?
 
I agree on the separate rear motor not needing a locker. Response time will be sufficient like that without using the brake modulation for traction control.

I thought the the motor setup was the other way around with the induction being better for power but the PM motor better for efficiency?
The PM in the front was meant to make it operate in FWD in cruise for better range?

The PMSR motors are more efficient than the induction motors.

When you get into an AWD trimotor that’s cruising on the freeway at maybe five percent of rated power, it gets more complicated.

In that situation, the best case would be to have one PMSR running at fifteen or twenty percent of rated power, with the other two motors asleep and just rolling along - but you can’t put the PMSR motors to sleep, because the magnets keep on generating current.

That’s part of why Ravens have a PMSR front motor - the big induction motor in the rear is asleep 90% of the time on Performance cars, and that’s more efficient than having a bigger PMSR in the rear for them that’s running at lower power levels most of the time. (The other part being Tesla hasn’t designed a 350 kW PMSR motor core.)

So four obvious options for the Trimotor Cybertruck:

Could do induction on all three, but it’d overheat at high loads and be less efficient.

Could do PMSR front motor and induction rear motors. This is most efficient on the freeway, with the PMSR running in the mid load range and the two induction motors asleep.

Could do PMSR rear motors, and induction front. This has better track performance, but is slightly less efficient on the freeway because the two rear motors both have to stay alive, and each is operating at a lower, less efficient power level. That my guess for Plaid, and I wouldn’t be surprised if the Cybertruck trimotor copied it.

Finally, could do three PMSR motors. This option offers the best long term heavy load performance (Track driving, etc,) because all the motor rotors run cooler, but you can’t put anything to sleep on the freeway, and may even pay extra losses for through the road torque mismatches, like I suspect the AWD PM EV competition are. This is likely slightly less efficient on the freeway than the all induction solution , but I’m not 100% sure.

From what I’ve read, the PMSR motors are likely cheaper to build than the similarly sized induction motors. So it’ll be interesting to see which option Tesla chooses.
 
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@Saghost

Thanks for the explanation. That is what I thought was happening as well. PM's don't freewheel well. Do you know if the PM motors are axial flux or radial?

I’m not sure anyone outside Tesla knows exactly how a Tesla PMSR motor works. I’ve come across a couple articles like this one that think it is a flux device with the permanent magnets in the stator:

Tesla Model 3 Motor — Everything I've Been Able To Learn About It (Welcome To The Machine) | CleanTechnica

But then I’ve seen teardowns that I thought showed the magnets in the rotor.

More efficient, cheaper to make, and no one understands it? Tesla is clearly using black magic to power cars now. :p