-
Want to remove ads? Register an account and login to see fewer ads, and become a Supporting Member to remove almost all ads.
Luton Airport Car Park 2 Fire
- Thread starter ACarneiro
- Start date
- Status
MrBadger
Badger out
I just happened to be nosing inside a rather naked modern Range Rover and was surprised how much electronics there is in the back of those things. No wonder they are so big - they would have a shoe box sized boot otherwise.
In January 2021 JLR did some closed-road scenic filming of the new Defender V8 version where I live. They hired our village hall as their basic facilities base, which is opposite my house. (We were in lockdown here at that time but they had special permissions for appropriately managed work activities.) It was all very secretive with cars under covers until being driven for the cameras. I wandered across for a face-masked chat with one of the half dozen people who it seems were required to hang around for most of the day doing "who knows what". It was obvious that the car being featured was a new V8 and I commented that this must surely be one of the last new models of any brand that would ever be released with a V8. The conversation obviously incorporated a recognition of the changes in recent times and the future ending of new ICE sales. I said that I had a Tesla and when he asked about it I said that I'd had a positive experience. I volunteered the information that there had been mixed views of Tesla build quality but that I perhaps was "lucky" as I had had no issues in that regard ... he looked somewhat quizzical and in all seriousness said, "You mean with the car going on fire? I burst out laughing! I added, "No, I just mean some people had noticeable panel gaps!" Oh how I wish I could meet that guy again and ask how the reputation of JLR is going after all their vehicle fires!
The Vauxhall Zafira one could be ’A day a page’ diary. Hundreds of them spontaneously combusted in the uk alone and four recalls for the same issue. Also caused the Stavanger fire I believe.
Vauxhall recalls Zafira models for third time over new fire risk
The car giant says the latest recall affects cars built between 2005 and 2014 which do not have electronic climate control.
news.sky.com
WannabeOwner
Well-Known Member
We had some aerial photography done for a promotional video (Helicopter, this is before Drones). Camera rig stuck out of the side on what looked like scaffolding, with camera operator half-in / half-out ...
.... when my boss came to pay the bill it included a fee for the "Clapper board operator"
Jason71
Well-Known Member
They probably edited him in in postWe had some aerial photography done for a promotional video (Helicopter, this is before Drones). Camera rig stuck out of the side on what looked like scaffolding, with camera operator half-in / half-out ...
.... when my boss came to pay the bill it included a fee for the "Clapper board operator"
While I agree with the sentiment, I think we have to acknowledge that a 2019 article on cars built between 2005 and 2014, ie cars up to 14 years old, needs to be put in context, maybe its a symptom of older cars starting to have age related failures which can cause fires such as failing insulation/hoses etc, Who knows what EV's will be like when they're coming up to 14 years old, maybe battery insulation starts to fail, the cooling circuits gunk up. I think its a little to early to assume EVs won't have age related issues of their own, and there's a well known roadster repair place in the US who's managed to have I think 3 EV fires now in his workshops, and they're the nearest we have to a 10+ year old carsThe Vauxhall Zafira one could be ’A day a page’ diary. Hundreds of them spontaneously combusted in the uk alone and four recalls for the same issue. Also caused the Stavanger fire I believe.
Vauxhall recalls Zafira models for third time over new fire risk
The car giant says the latest recall affects cars built between 2005 and 2014 which do not have electronic climate control.
The Roadster used an NCA battery that has poor thermal stabilty. Without careful temperature control this type of battery will go into thermal runaway and catch fire.
Modern batteries have better thermal stability. The LFP batteries in the current RWD Tesla and some other EVs are nearly impossible to burn.
Tesla was only begining to understanding how to package and manage batteries when they built the Roadster. Newer cars are much improved.
It's over 10 years since Tesla ramped up production of the S85 and introduced the S60. So the first Model S are 10+ years old, but many have had their batteries replaced.
AndrewGR
Member
Is it true that many model S have had their batteries replaced? It was only launched in 2012 so few can be over 10 years old. If current batteries are going to need replacing before 10 years Tesla will have a serious warranty headache which assumes they will last at least 8 years.
Jason71
Well-Known Member
Some have for sure but "a lot" is a relative term not sure what the number would be as a percent. and some of them have done a lot of miles so that is fair enough in those cases.
Does that mean that that "a lot" current batteries will only last 10 years? or does it mean that 10-12 years ago when those cars were being designed and built the technology was 10-12 years behind where it is now and current cars will be a lot better? hopefully the latter.
I think Telsa have been on a learning curve like everyone else. I know when I first got one back in 2015 there were a lot of motor replacements going on and new batteries were not uncommon. Some may also remember batterygate where Tesla effectively knobbled the 85 battery pack because of a fire in China IIRC
And while Model S was a ramp up over the roadster, it was only really with the Model 3 did we get any sizeable production volumes.
I don’t think it changes the basic point though, we’ve not got enough examples or data to really know what the long term issues might be and how best managed, it may be there aren’t any. Tesla have however reserved in their warranty document that they can remove range or restrict performance through deliberate software changes and it doesn’t count as part of the normal degradation calculation. They’re pretty unlikely to go there I’d imagine, but they have reserved the ability.
And while Model S was a ramp up over the roadster, it was only really with the Model 3 did we get any sizeable production volumes.
I don’t think it changes the basic point though, we’ve not got enough examples or data to really know what the long term issues might be and how best managed, it may be there aren’t any. Tesla have however reserved in their warranty document that they can remove range or restrict performance through deliberate software changes and it doesn’t count as part of the normal degradation calculation. They’re pretty unlikely to go there I’d imagine, but they have reserved the ability.
Batteries are certainly improving. My 2014 LEAF lost 20% in the first 35,000 miles. Have not seen anything like that in the EVs I've owned since.
Tesla say the ( NCA ? ) 18650 battery Model S / X looses 12% at 200,000 miles.
LFP Cycle life is high enough the LFP cars will likely die from age, not miles.
Tesla: Battery Capacity Degradation Averages 12% After 200,000 Miles
Tesla revealed the average battery capacity degradation in its electric cars in its new Impact Report 2022.
insideevs.com
Early Model S had some water intrusion problems in the batteries which led to a number of early replacements. They fixed that issue, maybe in the 2015 packs?
They later had 1 bad cell design, with 90 packs needing replacement due to rapid degradation.
But that was really it.
The problem Teslas are outside warranty or close to it now, and volumes were much lower than now.
Jason71
Well-Known Member
The problem with the Leaf was the complete lack of active thermal management on the battery packs that cooked the cells. That lesson has been 100% learned. no one is making EV batteries that way any more.Batteries are certainly improving. My 2014 LEAF lost 20% in the first 35,000 miles. Have not seen anything like that in the EVs I've owned since.
Tesla say the ( NCA ? ) 18650 battery Model S / X looses 12% at 200,000 miles.
LFP Cycle life is high enough the LFP cars will likely die from age, not miles.
Tesla: Battery Capacity Degradation Averages 12% After 200,000 Miles
Tesla revealed the average battery capacity degradation in its electric cars in its new Impact Report 2022.
WannabeOwner
Well-Known Member
The surprise, to me, is that new versions of the Leaf came out .,.. without active cooling being added
WannabeOwner
Well-Known Member
I can't speak for anyone else, but my 2015 P90D did 95K miles, over 3.5 years, and had about 6% degradation. Definitely didn't have a replacement battery
. When I first got it service interval was "required" and similar to ICE, but that changed, so I didn't bother to service it at all from 50K miles until I traded it in.***that lesson has been learned by everyone other than Nissan****
Jason71
Well-Known Member
- Status
