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Semiconductors benefit from the fact that your goal is obvious - smaller is better. It may take an astonishing amount of work to shrink transistors 50%, but when you achieve it you definitely improve performance and reduce cost. It's hard but you know what you need to do.
There is no equivalent "straightforward" means of improving batteries, which require fundamental breakthroughs in chemistry, materials, etc.
tomsax
Member
It's not a problem to drive a Roadster 240 miles, you just have to stop for a partial charge along the way.
For example, if I were planning a 240-mile drive, I'd look for an RV park between 100 and 150 miles out with a 240V/50A plug preferably close to somewhere to eat, do something, or use WiFi.
Charging from a NEMA 14-50 pulling 240V/40A will get you about 30 miles of range per hour of charging. Driving 55-60 mph in reasonable weather, you'd only need about an hour of charging to make it, call it a leisurely lunch. If it's up around 100 degrees or you're driving 70, you'll need more time. It it's hot and you're driving 70, you'll need several hours.
You can find different places for the way back and subsequent trips, or settle on a favorite place that makes for a pleasant stop along the way.
If you can get someone to install an HPC 150 miles out from Salt Lake City, that will double the charging rate and make it easy to drive all the way to St. George.
A tip from Chad Schwitters: when calling RV parks to find a NEMA 14-50, just ask if they have a 50A plug, otherwise you're likely to get a wrong answer. If you ask for 240V/50A, they may say yes and then you find out they have a 120V/30A outlet which is useless. They may also have what you need and still say no because they think their 50A plugs are 120V.
Good tip worth repeating, but I'm not sure if Chad said "50A plug" or "50 amp service". I think the latter is the term familiar to RV park personnel. (Sounds like splitting hairs ... but it could make a difference. "We have 30 amp service only" or "We have 30 amp and 50 amp service" would be the distinguishing features, IMHO. Start talking "plugs" and it might get messy again.)
backmost
Member
Sorry to dig up such an old thread, but I would love to see some updated numbers on how much maintenance costs now? Especially with the scarcity of parts available through Tesla.
It varies a bit as you can see throughout this forum, but some recurring themes:
1. annual service $600-$700
2. eventual battery, maybe you don't need it now, but you eventually will (for the next 10 years): $30k
3. 400V controller sometimes seems to cause issues: about $1k+
4. Rear tires go quick, front tires and brakes last an eternity
5. A number of cars had PEMs replaced (either under warranty or not): $10k or there are increasing options to lower that cost and address what is broken within the PEM
6. TPMS issues for some, not horrendously expensive but annoying,
I haven't seen evidence that Tesla is increasing price due to scarcity of parts, it's more the question of when you can get them.
In general maintenance for the car, placed in proper context for what it is, is not high except for the battery which is quite expensive
considering it only has a 3 year warranty.
I may have missed some, but others will chime in..
1. annual service $600-$700
2. eventual battery, maybe you don't need it now, but you eventually will (for the next 10 years): $30k
3. 400V controller sometimes seems to cause issues: about $1k+
4. Rear tires go quick, front tires and brakes last an eternity
5. A number of cars had PEMs replaced (either under warranty or not): $10k or there are increasing options to lower that cost and address what is broken within the PEM
6. TPMS issues for some, not horrendously expensive but annoying,
I haven't seen evidence that Tesla is increasing price due to scarcity of parts, it's more the question of when you can get them.
In general maintenance for the car, placed in proper context for what it is, is not high except for the battery which is quite expensive
considering it only has a 3 year warranty.
I may have missed some, but others will chime in..
Good summary.
I would only add that from a "maintenance" perspective, it's pretty much just the annual service and tires. Other items are more under the "repair" category, as, other than the battery, they should in theory last the life of the car. Brakes could be a maintenance item if you do a lot of track driving (lots of non-regen braking), and perhaps the shocks if you're on really bad roads a lot, but I don't have a good feel for those. Fluids are part of the annual service, so not listed separately. They also replace the windshield wipers, whether you need them or not.
If you generally hold on to your cars for 10-15 years, the battery replacement is essentially just getting a new car, for half the cost. Kinda.
I would only add that from a "maintenance" perspective, it's pretty much just the annual service and tires. Other items are more under the "repair" category, as, other than the battery, they should in theory last the life of the car. Brakes could be a maintenance item if you do a lot of track driving (lots of non-regen braking), and perhaps the shocks if you're on really bad roads a lot, but I don't have a good feel for those. Fluids are part of the annual service, so not listed separately. They also replace the windshield wipers, whether you need them or not.
If you generally hold on to your cars for 10-15 years, the battery replacement is essentially just getting a new car, for half the cost. Kinda.
rudholm
Member
I'd like to delay the battery replacement/upgrade until it becomes necessary since it's a significant expense, I just hope they remain available. My local SC assured me that they would.
Maybe in a few years the upgrade will benefit from further advances in battery technology.
Dreaming is free.
Maybe in a few years the upgrade will benefit from further advances in battery technology.
Dreaming is free.
Kerios
Member
I'd suggest factor in the cost of the PEM fan unit (single on early cars, twin on later), budget around $500 all in for a IP68 spec HVAC unit, don't get it from Tesla you'll just pay twice as much, get it from the OEM. Search the threads in TMC for specific details or message me and I'll pass on distributor details. Easy to fit incidentally too.
Front fender liners, tend to get a bit sloppy after a while, around $200 each, and a pain to fit.
12V battery and maybe bracket at front of car, again around $500, easy to do yourself but a pain due to removing the fender liner, some folks have replaced with a Lithium ion battery in lieu of the Lead acid standard battery. Some threads on TMC regarding.
Brakes pads / discs, last a while, easy DIY and upgrade to better discs/pads - I use EBC Greenstuff with good results and fitted myself, cost around $400.
I did the battery replacement using my battery replacement agreement, CAC was 135, and I upgraded to the 3.0 for a $6000 cost (got me my fourth PEM in a row as well
), if you don't need to don't I suggest until you do, if that makes sense. The 3.0 story is well, a story, time will tell if it were worth it, but I'm pleased it only cost me $6k for sure!Baring a complete battery failure, the reason to do an upgrade is fundamentally lack of range, either because the old battery is simply worn out, or because your travel patterns tend to exceed what you can do in a single charge, or a combination of the two. The thread on 3.0 Battery Longevity is an interesting (or disturbing?) read on the next level of detail in deciding to do (or not) the upgrade. I know it caused me some pause in pulling the trigger. I may do it next year, if things appear to have settled out, just to make travel more enjoyable. "Enjoyable" includes both the extra range, and the ability to use heat more aggressively in the winter
. Range and comfort were "pulls" for the new Roadster, until sanity prevailed (at least temporarily).I really don't expect Tesla to make any further changes to the 3.0 battery upgrade, unless something from the current population comes to light that there is a fatal issue with what they are offering. Given the cost, that is why I paused on doing the upgrade. But realistically, the chances of them discovering something of that magnitude now are pretty remote. So, assume you're buying a 300 mile (not 340) battery, and make your decision on that.
Rear tires give you about 7K-10K of miles depending upon how you drive - $300 total
Annual maintenance - $600
Replacement of shocks - $4-6K (ouch but these are basically racing shocks so expensive, you may be able to refurbish your old ones)
The PEMs are getting pretty old and their insulator substrate needs to be replaced - you can do it yourself or get someone else to do it for about $3-5K
Annual maintenance - $600
Replacement of shocks - $4-6K (ouch but these are basically racing shocks so expensive, you may be able to refurbish your old ones)
The PEMs are getting pretty old and their insulator substrate needs to be replaced - you can do it yourself or get someone else to do it for about $3-5K
backmost
Member
Compared to the other exotics like Ferraris and Lambos the maintenance is not as bad, at least from the anecdotal evidence here. I'd love to have a F355 (childhood dream car) but the prospect of the full $10k plus full engine out servicing and tons of other maintenance issues would certainly bankrupt me!
Mark77a
Member
I've found official Tesla Roadster service have cost me c$550 / £450 average PA, which is pretty good cf Porsche et al. and especially ("if you have to ask the price, you are not in the club, and probably can't afford it" ... attitude) Ferrari .... so I'm told Also the nice thing about Tesla service (in the UK, at least) is they loan you a newer, model S while they have yours in - which is handy if you have some longer drives in that time... compared £170/day to rent a model s, makes the roadster service cost a bit of a bargain - especially when they need it for a week or so
Also the nice thing about Tesla service (in the UK, at least) is they loan you a newer, model S while they have yours in - which is handy if you have some longer drives in that time... compared £170/day to rent a model s, makes the roadster service cost a bit of a bargain - especially when they need it for a week or so 
dhrivnak
Active Member
I'd suggest factor in the cost of the PEM fan unit (single on early cars, twin on later), budget around $500 all in for a IP68 spec HVAC unit, don't get it from Tesla you'll just pay twice as much, get it from the OEM. Search the threads in TMC for specific details or message me and I'll pass on distributor details. Easy to fit incidentally too.
Front fender liners, tend to get a bit sloppy after a while, around $200 each, and a pain to fit.
12V battery and maybe bracket at front of car, again around $500, easy to do yourself but a pain due to removing the fender liner, some folks have replaced with a Lithium ion battery in lieu of the Lead acid standard battery. Some threads on TMC regarding.
Brakes pads / discs, last a while, easy DIY and upgrade to better discs/pads - I use EBC Greenstuff with good results and fitted myself, cost around $400.
I did the battery replacement using my battery replacement agreement, CAC was 135, and I upgraded to the 3.0 for a $6000 cost (got me my fourth PEM in a row as well
I may not be normal but I have had my Roadster for nearly 7 years now and know the history on the first two and have over 45,000 miles, so not quite a garage queen. My PEM fans are still doing just fine as is the HVAC system. Front fender liners are OK as well and I do have the sound dampened fiber ones. The 1.5's do not have a 12V so I am good there and the brake pads still have about half their life left.
The only significant repair has been the high voltage unit $1100 and then the TPMS wheel sensors for about $200 each. I did pring for the 3.0 battery as the range is quite nice and that gives me 3 years of "warranty". But mine was MUCH more than $6K so be prepared to spend $$$$ if you do not have the prepaid battery replacement.
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