Welcome to Tesla Motors Club
Discuss Tesla's Model S, Model 3, Model X, Model Y, Cybertruck, Roadster and More.
Register

Market politics

This site may earn commission on affiliate links.
Status
Not open for further replies.
You're referring to fake news. Sorry.

Nope. FBI is on it. The shutdown actually slowed the investigation but it's happening. I find it odd that you'd dismiss the claims of the CFO of the Clinton Foundation as fake news. Even more mind boggling is that you'd suggest he's part of the GOP propaganda machine.

Feds received whistleblower evidence in 2017 alleging Clinton Foundation wrongdoing

“It is a very good roadmap for investigation,” said retired FBI supervisory agent Jeffrey Danik, a prior practicing certified public accountant who helped the bureau make some of its most complex financial fraud and terrorism cases during a 29-year career.

“When you have the organization’s own lawyers using words like ‘quid pro quo,’ ‘conflicts of interest’ and ‘whistleblower protections,’ you have enough to get permission to start interviewing and asking questions,” he said.

Some of the CFO's quotes are the best:

“There is no controlling Bill Clinton. He does whatever he wants and runs up incredible expenses with foundation funds"

“Bill Clinton mixes and matches his personal business with that of the foundation. Many people within the foundation have tried to caution him about this but he does not listen, and there really is no talking to him”

“I have addressed it before and, let me tell you, I know where all the bodies are buried in this place”
 
Last edited:
Here is what wiki says about the author ...
John F. Solomon is an American media executive and columnist. He is currently vice president of digital video and an opinion contributor for The Hill. He is known primarily for his tenure as an executive and editor-in-chief at The Washington Times. He has been accused of biased reporting in favor of conservatives, and of repeatedly manufacturing faux scandals.

BTW, that Clinton does whatever he wants and mixes foundation and personal work sound credible.

But, you lose credibility when you compare Trump foundation with Clinton's. Trump foundation has no employees - and was routinely used by Trump to fund weird personal expenses. He even gave to Bondi's PAC (!) from the charity - the AG who "decided" not to prosecute Trump. "Both sideism" is a poor argument.

Clinton foundation is a large foundation, collects a lot of money and spends a lot on actual charity. It has a high score (92) on charity navigator. Scored as very transparent too. The program expense of 86% is ok.

Charity Navigator - Rating for The Clinton Foundation

A Brief Analysis of the Clinton and Trump Foundations
 
Maybe the Kessel interview is real. Maybe it isn't. I'd like to see a statement from Kessel which is under oath and verified, not via these extremely shady "MDA" people. Remember James O'Keefe and his doctored videos.

According to the Clinton Foundation, Kessel "strongly denies that he said or suggested that the Clinton Foundation or President Clinton engaged in inappropriate or illegal activities." So at the moment, the evidence leans towards MDA faking the interview.

The Clinton Foundation concedes that the Clinton Foundation was a mismanaged mess in 2008 and 2011, with no board meeting minutes and missing policies. That I certainly believe. (I've seen the inside of a lot of charities -- they are usually a paperwork mess.) I wouldn't be surprised at all if Bill Clinton was irresponsibly comingling accounts, either.

The Clinton Foundation hasn't been buying portraits of Bill Clinton, though. The Trump Foundation has bought at least three portraits of Donald Trump.

The Trump Foundation appears to have literally never spent a dime with a charitable purpose and has *already been shut down and had its assets confiscated* because of this. The Clinton Foundation does actual documented charitable work.

Trump appears to have been using the Trump Foundation as one big tax evasion scheme. He directed third parties to "donate" money to the Trump Foundation (tax free) which he then spent on himself -- a way of avoiding income tax.

An investigation by the Washington Post has not been able to validate that Trump has actually donated the money he pledged, instead finding, “Trump promised millions to charity. We found less than $10,000 over 7 years.”

This fits with Trump's past history. Lots of tax evasion there.

Someone started going through the donations to real charities made by the Trump Foundation (yes, there were a few, it wasn't *all* 9-foot portraits of Trump), and started finding that they each seemed to coincide with Trump getting something from that charity. Hmm.
 
Last edited:
I have not seen a single lawyer with any credibility who believes this is over. Not by a long shot. My SO showed me this article today:
Look at All the Weasel Words Bill Barr Used to Protect Trump

She thinks it's the best summary she's seen to date.

This is a good summary.

He's gonna get it for the tax fraud. I'm not sure when Trump will cough up the penalties for his tax frauds, but the state of New York has no incentive to go easy on him, and can definitely use the money in the state budget.
 
It's a little known fact that the US came very close to universal basic income, thanks to Richard Nixon. It was assumed that it was fait accompli except for the details. Two bills passed the House and had the support of Nixon, but Democrats in the Senate ended up killing both bills because they couldn't agree on the amounts. By the late 70s the idea had died and we were moving to a more laze faire time.
 
Here is what wiki says about the author ...


BTW, that Clinton does whatever he wants and mixes foundation and personal work sound credible.

But, you lose credibility when you compare Trump foundation with Clinton's. Trump foundation has no employees - and was routinely used by Trump to fund weird personal expenses. He even gave to Bondi's PAC (!) from the charity - the AG who "decided" not to prosecute Trump. "Both sideism" is a poor argument.

Clinton foundation is a large foundation, collects a lot of money and spends a lot on actual charity. It has a high score (92) on charity navigator. Scored as very transparent too. The program expense of 86% is ok.

Charity Navigator - Rating for The Clinton Foundation

A Brief Analysis of the Clinton and Trump Foundations

Go back and read what I said. At no point did I compare the foundations. I compared what the Clinton and Trump did with the foundations. It doesn't matter one bit if the Foundations are good or bad. Using donated money as a personal slush fund is bad no matter who does it. Trying to paint one as criminal in a good light and the other in a bad light is sad.
 
  • Disagree
Reactions: UrsS
Maybe the Kessel interview is real. Maybe it isn't. I'd like to see a statement from Kessel which is under oath and verified, not via these extremely shady "MDA" people. Remember James O'Keefe and his doctored videos.

According to the Clinton Foundation, Kessel "strongly denies that he said or suggested that the Clinton Foundation or President Clinton engaged in inappropriate or illegal activities." So at the moment, the evidence leans towards MDA faking the interview.

The Clinton Foundation concedes that the Clinton Foundation was a mismanaged mess in 2008 and 2011, with no board meeting minutes and missing policies. That I certainly believe. (I've seen the inside of a lot of charities -- they are usually a paperwork mess.) I wouldn't be surprised at all if Bill Clinton was irresponsibly comingling accounts, either.

The Clinton Foundation hasn't been buying portraits of Bill Clinton, though. The Trump Foundation has bought at least three portraits of Donald Trump.

The Trump Foundation appears to have literally never spent a dime with a charitable purpose and has *already been shut down and had its assets confiscated* because of this. The Clinton Foundation does actual documented charitable work.

Trump appears to have been using the Trump Foundation as one big tax evasion scheme. He directed third parties to "donate" money to the Trump Foundation (tax free) which he then spent on himself -- a way of avoiding income tax.



This fits with Trump's past history. Lots of tax evasion there.

Someone started going through the donations to real charities made by the Trump Foundation (yes, there were a few, it wasn't *all* 9-foot portraits of Trump), and started finding that they each seemed to coincide with Trump getting something from that charity. Hmm.

Got it. So Clinton breaking the law is less bad thanTrump breaking the law. How about they are both bad for breaking the law? Glad you guys have some integrity. Funny how you believe everything CNN says with no fact checking but suddenly facts matter when Clinton is being accused.

It's sad that you guys are more interested in protecting your political parties than protecting our country.
 
We disconnected ourselves from mainstream media after the 2016 election and never looked back. It has been very refreshing, and was easier to do than we expected, given the TSLA FUD we have witnessed since our first investment in early 2013 has helped form similar sentiments for us about who controls the news and why. This can of course lead to some occasional confusion for us when our friends and neighbors are sharing their opinions (which have been in-part manufactured by their 24/7 news addictions) about news events which seem to make a lot of sense when we are simply allowed to come to our own opinion in our own silence. Case in point was their negative opinion of Ilhan Omar's grilling of Elliott Abrams for past War Crimes recently in an effort to ensure that he would commit to upholding Human Rights and International Law for any future effort in Venezuela. Not having our opinion led by the news, our immediate thought was - 'Great! - how long overdue.' And when we saw the actual footage of Abrams getting grilled by Omar in its full context, we had to watch it more than once. This event was karmic and it really was long overdue IMO:

 
Last edited:
Who cares? Criminals are criminals. But if you're only interested in enforcing laws when someone is in power, then remember, Hillary was Secretary of State.
You're the one who tried to claim that "we" were more interested in protecting political parties than protecting the country. The Clinton's no longer have any effect on the country, Trump does. So in fact it seems that you are the one more interested in political parties than protecting the country.
 
You're the one who tried to claim that "we" were more interested in protecting political parties than protecting the country. The Clinton's no longer have any effect on the country, Trump does. So in fact it seems that you are the one more interested in political parties than protecting the country.

I want anyone prosecuted who is stealing a charities money. That is protecting the country, it's people and the rule of law. You're the one saying it's okay that the Clinton's are stealing a charities money because they aren't in politics.

If you want to play by your rules though, The accusations against the Trump foundations were prior to him being president.

Doesn't matter to me though. Prosecute all the criminals no matter when the crimes occurred (baring any statue of limitations considerations).
 
Last edited:
  • Disagree
Reactions: UrsS
It is much too soon to engage in "horse race" analysis of the Democratic primaries, but some experts are forthright about their criteria which I found eliminating.

https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/heres-how-were-defining-a-major-presidential-candidate/

All of it makes sense, but unless I missed it there is no discussion of policy considerations as a category for candidate preference which is what most voters will at least pretend is their ranking measure. Nonetheless, Silver covers his rear because restricted to "objective measures," and by that standard he does a great job.

At this early stage with a plethora of candidates, a practical thing we should do now is discuss, and measure the discussion, of the likely platform of the Party. It is never too late to have that openly discussed in my unhumble opinion. That will happen in the course of the campaign but in a defused and hap-hazard way. Help!, Nate.
 
You're the one saying it's okay that the Clinton's are stealing a charities money because they aren't in politics.
I never said that. I said only that if one were truly concerned about protecting the country the focus should be on the current president. I don't think we should be worried about what Bush and Regan did at this point either.
 
  • Like
Reactions: neroden
Yes! What is the platform of the party? Should be at the core of every discussion, and with a level of conviction that supports a public web page stating their Mission Statement as defined by their unwaivering core values that shape that platform. Of course that's the last thing the party wants to discuss. It gives them the opportunity to push their picks on us and define the platform as needed to manipulate the masses. Can anyone find the candidate not represented in this 'news' headline?
upload_2019-3-26_10-9-34.png


Let me give you a hint - which includes why they are scared of a transparent playing field:
c9c138612aebb74c54f1463fa36e4415.jpg
 

Attachments

  • upload_2019-3-26_10-12-28.jpeg
    upload_2019-3-26_10-12-28.jpeg
    15.5 KB · Views: 34
Last edited:
I want anyone prosecuted who is stealing a charities money. That is protecting the country, it's people and the rule of law. You're the one saying it's okay that the Clinton's are stealing a charities money because they aren't in politics.

If you want to play by your rules though, The accusations against the Trump foundations were prior to him being president.

Doesn't matter to me though. Prosecute all the criminals no matter when the crimes occurred (baring any statue of limitations considerations).

I agree with you that anyone who has stolen a charity's money for their own gain, or used a charity as a front for something else should be prosecuted. However, the hard evidence that the Clinton's used the Clinton Foundation for their own benefit either financially or politically is about as plentiful as hard evidence Hillary Clinton ran a child sex ring out of a Washington DC pizza parlor. But the evidence that there were fishy things about Trump's foundation is plentiful.

The Clinton's have been investigated mercilessly by the Republicans every chance they get for over 20 years. First it was White Water, then other White House "scandals" like travelgate and Vince Foster's suicide. Kenneth Starr had very broad powers and the scope of his investigation into the Clintons was wider than Mueller's into Trump. Despite all the digging, the only thing Kenneth Starr was able to come up with was a possible lie under oath about a sexual affair. I say possible because the judge in the case had defined "sexual relations" as intercourse and that didn't happen. Under the judge's definition, Bill Clinton did not have sexual relations with Monica Lewinsky, but in the court of public opinion, he lied. It would have been smarter for Clinton to claim relevance with the question.

When Hillary Clinton became Secretary of State, the slime campaign started up again. As soon as the Republicans got control of the House they started investigating her for Benghazi. The destruction of the US consulate in Benghazi is a tragedy. But the Republicans turned over every rock for years and quietly disbanded the special sub-committee because despite what could be called a real witch hunt type investigation, they found no wrong doing.

Hillary Clinton's e-mail issues were also blown way out of proportion. She is a technophobe and only wanted to use a Blackberry for all her correspondence, both private and business. US government IT infrastructure is way behind the private sector and it was common for the Secretary of State to use some other e-mail address. Colin Powell used an AOL address. Other SoSs used other commercial e-mail addresses. The Clintons brought in a top expert to set up their private e-mail server. Because it was on a domain that was unknown to all but a few people, and the people with access to the server was very limited, it was easy to tamp down security on the server to a level that is impossible with either a commercial or government server.

Because of the hair on fire the Republicans had about Hillary's e-mail server, a law got passed requiring the SoS to use government e-mail only, which every SoS since Clinton has used. She left office right when the law went into effect, so it did not affect her.

The Republicans continue to go on about her private e-mail server despite the fact she turned over relevant e-mails to the government archives as part of the Presidential Records Act. Contrast that with many in the White House today using private e-mail to conduct government business despite the law the Republicans passed outlawing the practice.

The hypocrisy that chaps my hide about Republicans and the conservative media's coverage is that
a) Republicans can flaunt the law and that's OK, but if there is even an unsubstantiated rumor a Democrat broke a law that didn't exist when they were in office they are guilty.
b) Any evidence of wrong doing by a Republican is "fake news", any rumor of wrongdoing by a Democrat, even if physically impossible, is the absolute truth.

Looking at the hard evidence that has turned up about the Clintons, Hillary had some sloppy practice keeping personal and work e-mails separate, but there is no evidence of criminal wrongdoing on her part. The Clinton Foundation may have some sloppy paperwork practices, but again there is no evidence of criminal intent or any outright crimes being committed.

On the other hand, the Trump Foundation had a track record of giving very little to actual charitable causes and at least some of the money in the foundation's coffers went to benefit Trump personally. Trump also pledged a fair amount to the charity, but gave very little of his own money to it. From what we know from Michael Cohen, Trump committed a number of financial crimes over the time Cohen knew him.

The conservative media very steeply discounts wrongdoing on the part of Trump and greatly inflates any wrongdoing/mistakes on the part of the Clintons to make the Clintons look worse. But I live in a world of facts. Not all the facts are in, but from what I've seen thus far there seems to be a lot of criminal activity in the Trump camp, and in the Clinton camp some incompetence, but nothing done with criminal intent. Even very, very partisan investigations into the Clintons have turned up very, very little. There are quite a few Republicans turning up very clear crimes on Trump's part.

To verify the veracity of a story, I first check for internal consistency. Does the story stand up by itself? For example the pizza-gate stories don't stand up on their own. Next I check many news sources. Some stories are a big deal in the right wing media circles, but if there is anything outside of those circles, it's fact checking that debunks the stories. There is a vast array of news sources outside the conservative sphere ranging from media sources owned by large corporate entities down to small organizations or even individuals digging out stuff themselves. I look for organizations that can present some kind of factual evidence for their claims that holds together on its own.

That isn't a guarantee the story is true, but I'm deeply suspicious of any story that only exists in the conservative media. The journalistic standards in those circles is very poor and takes a backseat to the political motives.

It is much too soon to engage in "horse race" analysis of the Democratic primaries, but some experts are forthright about their criteria which I found eliminating.

https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/heres-how-were-defining-a-major-presidential-candidate/

All of it makes sense, but unless I missed it there is no discussion of policy considerations as a category for candidate preference which is what most voters will at least pretend is their ranking measure. Nonetheless, Silver covers his rear because restricted to "objective measures," and by that standard he does a great job.

At this early stage with a plethora of candidates, a practical thing we should do now is discuss, and measure the discussion, of the likely platform of the Party. It is never too late to have that openly discussed in my unhumble opinion. That will happen in the course of the campaign but in a defused and hap-hazard way. Help!, Nate.

I think most Americans to the left of Atilla the Hun these days are waiting for the Democratic field to slim down a bit before they pay much attention. I think most feel similar to me. I want two things in my next president:
1) Someone who can beat Trump, or whoever replaces him on the 2020 ticket if he isn't there for one reason or another.
2) Someone competent to repair the damage Trump has wrought.

Beyond that, I don't care who is the Democratic nominee. So far all have flaws that concern me, but I think all could beat Trump and all would probably be able to do something to fix the country, though none stand out in that regard.
 
I think most Americans to the left of Atilla the Hun these days are waiting for the Democratic field to slim down a bit before they pay much attention. I think most feel similar to me. I want two things in my next president:
1) Someone who can beat Trump, or whoever replaces him on the 2020 ticket if he isn't there for one reason or another.
2) Someone competent to repair the damage Trump has wrought.

Beyond that, I don't care who is the Democratic nominee. So far all have flaws that concern me, but I think all could beat Trump and all would probably be able to do something to fix the country, though none stand out in that regard.

I concur, but I would like to hear what policies you or others prefer. The Green New Deal is a good start. I'm working on an approach which might also help. If I can't get it published will engage here with the conversation. (I have a stack of rejections. Once a publisher replied, "we don't accept unsolicited manuscripts.")
 
Status
Not open for further replies.