Left side of screen nearly useless?

[TigerNinety]

Hey all,

I’ve had my Model 3 for a bit less than 3000 miles; it’s my second Tesla and my first with the single central display. Lots of things to like, but I’m finding Tesla’s use of the central display real estate not only suboptimal, but kinda dangerous.

I enjoy being able to see maps and navigation on the right side; it’s pretty luxurious. I like it, even though it’s not really useful all the time (and you shouldn’t be taking your eyes off the road all that much while rolling anyway).

But, the graphical rendering of my M3 amid other cars on the left side of the display is pretty much useless. Everything it’s showing me around my car, I should see or be able to see with my eyes without looking at the screen while moving. And, if I’m seeing something on the screen that I can’t humanly see, odds are pretty high that I’m paying too much attention to the screen rather than the road, anyway.

I’d argue that none of this really changes with AP or FSD at this time. Drivers are still ultimately responsible for what their cars do, and your eyes need to be up for that.

So, what would be better? I don’t claim to be an interface engineer, though I’ve done quality assurance on interfaces. One thing I’d like to see would be any text alerts toward the top and on the left (eg, just below the speed, to the right of the headlight status). Anything that reflects my voice (eg. text messages or commands) should also go there. Perhaps most importantly, though: larger buttons for things that are currently on the bottom bar. Why is the interface designed to take my eyes the farthest off the road, with some of the smallest touch targets, to do things like select the radio or pick a station (or pause or skip forward)? Ditto for things like displaying energy use: why can’t that be a “widget” on the left side, instead of something that pretty much takes over my luxurious map display?

Anyway, not a rant, just something that’s been on my mind. Welcome others’ thoughts.

Todd

 

[GtiMart]

I think a lot of the interface is designed with the idea that you are not supposed to interact with it during driving. Most systems provide "auto" settings (climate, wipers, high beams etc) so that you don't need to touch the display. Navigation destination should be entered before a drive. Ideally you don't touch the media controls while you drive either... I know that's not really what happens in practice but it seems to be part of the design.

The left side lets humans know what the AI recognizes and reacts to. I don't think it's there so you look at it while you drive... for the most part it's there to understand why something happened the way it happened. You might say it's more diagnostic. Ideally the AI is perfect and the human sitting in the car doesn't need to know anything but we're not there yet.
One thing that is displayed there is a car in your blind spot, if you set your turn signal and start changing lanes. That car will be drawn in red. Now that we have repeater camera display it might be less useful.

 

[TigerNinety]

I sincerely appreciate all of the above. I’d emphasize a point you made, though: “I know that’s not really what happens in practice….” Why not design an interface for what does happen in practice? Again, just my $.02. Thanks!

 

[GtiMart]

Yeah... I think this all comes from Tesla's vision and general direction from up top... Make EVs, make them autonomously drive, etc. They're not quite making a car for today, they're trying to make a car for tomorrow, now I can't say that I agree with all the choices, I'm just trying to understand them and put them in words.

 

[Resist]

Tesla only shows those images as kind of a parlor trick, letting us see some of what the computer is seeing. If FSD ever becomes fully functional, I would imagine those images would not be shown anymore, because we wouldn't need to see them. We'd only need to see the map routing data.

 

[stopcrazypp]

Hey all,

I’ve had my Model 3 for a bit less than 3000 miles; it’s my second Tesla and my first with the single central display. Lots of things to like, but I’m finding Tesla’s use of the central display real estate not only suboptimal, but kinda dangerous.

I enjoy being able to see maps and navigation on the right side; it’s pretty luxurious. I like it, even though it’s not really useful all the time (and you shouldn’t be taking your eyes off the road all that much while rolling anyway).

But, the graphical rendering of my M3 amid other cars on the left side of the display is pretty much useless. Everything it’s showing me around my car, I should see or be able to see with my eyes without looking at the screen while moving. And, if I’m seeing something on the screen that I can’t humanly see, odds are pretty high that I’m paying too much attention to the screen rather than the road, anyway.

I’d argue that none of this really changes with AP or FSD at this time. Drivers are still ultimately responsible for what their cars do, and your eyes need to be up for that.

The FSD preview display shows what the car sees, which is very important especially for FSD Beta to determine the "intent" of the system, so you can intervene in time if you see it is going to lead to an accident. Just looking at the road may not necessarily give you enough information on the car's intent. There are other systems that go beyond this and verbally state via audio the cars intent, which may be even better.

When not running any AP features, it is used to visually display any alerts (like target car in FCW, blind spot monitor, or Land Departure Avoidance).

So, what would be better? I don’t claim to be an interface engineer, though I’ve done quality assurance on interfaces. One thing I’d like to see would be any text alerts toward the top and on the left (eg, just below the speed, to the right of the headlight status). Anything that reflects my voice (eg. text messages or commands) should also go there. Perhaps most importantly, though: larger buttons for things that are currently on the bottom bar.

They might allow this be customizable in the future. They did change this for the blind spot camera:
2022.24 allows you reposition the Blind Spot Camera display [Video]

Why is the interface designed to take my eyes the farthest off the road, with some of the smallest touch targets, to do things like select the radio or pick a station (or pause or skip forward)? Ditto for things like displaying energy use: why can’t that be a “widget” on the left side, instead of something that pretty much takes over my luxurious map display?

Anyway, not a rant, just something that’s been on my mind. Welcome others’ thoughts.

Todd

FYI: you can skip to next station by pushing the left scroll button left or right:
Model 3 Owner's Manual | Tesla

 

[Candleflame]

Hey all,

I’ve had my Model 3 for a bit less than 3000 miles; it’s my second Tesla and my first with the single central display. Lots of things to like, but I’m finding Tesla’s use of the central display real estate not only suboptimal, but kinda dangerous.

I enjoy being able to see maps and navigation on the right side; it’s pretty luxurious. I like it, even though it’s not really useful all the time (and you shouldn’t be taking your eyes off the road all that much while rolling anyway).

But, the graphical rendering of my M3 amid other cars on the left side of the display is pretty much useless. Everything it’s showing me around my car, I should see or be able to see with my eyes without looking at the screen while moving. And, if I’m seeing something on the screen that I can’t humanly see, odds are pretty high that I’m paying too much attention to the screen rather than the road, anyway.

I’d argue that none of this really changes with AP or FSD at this time. Drivers are still ultimately responsible for what their cars do, and your eyes need to be up for that.

So, what would be better? I don’t claim to be an interface engineer, though I’ve done quality assurance on interfaces. One thing I’d like to see would be any text alerts toward the top and on the left (eg, just below the speed, to the right of the headlight status). Anything that reflects my voice (eg. text messages or commands) should also go there. Perhaps most importantly, though: larger buttons for things that are currently on the bottom bar. Why is the interface designed to take my eyes the farthest off the road, with some of the smallest touch targets, to do things like select the radio or pick a station (or pause or skip forward)? Ditto for things like displaying energy use: why can’t that be a “widget” on the left side, instead of something that pretty much takes over my luxurious map display?

Anyway, not a rant, just something that’s been on my mind. Welcome others’ thoughts.

Todd

The best gui is still the prototype gui (similar to the Model S interface) without the useless AP view.... But elon doesnt want us to shrink the ap view. instead hes making it bigger with every update.

 

[UncertainTimes]

Yup

 

[father_of_6]

Yeah, that left side got wider in v10. It's mostly useless, although alerts and wiper settings appear there. There used to be "cards" that could appear there.

The visualizations only impressed me at the beginning of ownership... now I consider it a gimmick. It gets things wrong all the time, objects pop in and out, road lines wiggle even when the car is not moving, etc.

Proximity sensors (front and rear) show there while parking, those are useful.

I can't really imagine what would replace it though... even just for the proximity sensors.

 

[TigerNinety]

The FSD preview display shows what the car sees, which is very important especially for FSD Beta to determine the "intent" of the system, so you can intervene in time if you see it is going to lead to an accident. Just looking at the road may not necessarily give you enough information on the car's intent. There are other systems that go beyond this and verbally state via audio the cars intent, which may be even better.

I can imagine that value for FSD Beta, especially in directional change situations (vice straight navigation), but most Tesla drivers aren’t testing the Beta and probably will never have FSD (unless Tesla makes it standard).

When not running any AP features, it is used to visually display any alerts (like target car in FCW, blind spot monitor, or Land Departure Avoidance).

Thanks for the above. I’m still not persuaded of the value: for the FCW case, you’re looking down when you definitely should be looking up; screen-based BSM (vice proper mirror setting) also invites looking down instead of up; and, I can’t figure out why showing LDA on a screen is better than actually looking to see what lane you’re in (the tactile wheel feedback, however, is sensible, especially if you’re drowsy).

They might allow this be customizable in the future. They did change this for the blind spot camera:
2022.24 allows you reposition the Blind Spot Camera display [Video]

FYI: you can skip to next station by pushing the left scroll button left or right:
Model 3 Owner's Manual | Tesla

I’m still skeptical of looking down to see a blind spot that’s readily made not-blind by mirrors, no matter where the video feed is on the screen. Thank you for the tip on changing stations, I’ll give that a try!

Thinking about it further, I’d suggest that almost everything that warrants drivers’ visual or tactile attention should ”float” up and to the left on the screen (rather than being pinned to the bottom) and should be relatively large to touch. The positioning of the MPH is the best example of this; I can’t figure out why Tesla wouldn’t put the road speed limit right below that!

Thanks!

 

[TigerNinety]

The best gui is still the prototype gui (similar to the Model S interface) without the useless AP view.... But elon doesnt want us to shrink the ap view. instead hes making it bigger with every update.

I’m not sure I’ve seen that; any links or captures you could share? That’d be fun!

 

[Candleflame]

I’m not sure I’ve seen that; any links or captures you could share? That’d be fun!

daytime and nighttime!

Yes, they managed to make it worse every release!

 

[stopcrazypp]

I can imagine that value for FSD Beta, especially in directional change situations (vice straight navigation), but most Tesla drivers aren’t testing the Beta and probably will never have FSD (unless Tesla makes it standard).


Thanks for the above. I’m still not persuaded of the value: for the FCW case, you’re looking down when you definitely should be looking up; screen-based BSM (vice proper mirror setting) also invites looking down instead of up; and, I can’t figure out why showing LDA on a screen is better than actually looking to see what lane you’re in (the tactile wheel feedback, however, is sensible, especially if you’re drowsy).

It's kind of similar to FSD Beta example, it shows more clearly what the car is doing or planning to do (which exact lane it is responding to, what action it is doing). That was kind of the more positive review of UI of initial AP (back when it was on Model S) that it made it more intuitively clear what the car was doing (as opposed other existing car interfaces that use all sorts of icons that people can't necessarily tell intuitively what it means).

I suppose one way to address it is to make the visualization optional (although this might not be possible if it is there to meet certain regulatory requirements or test results esp related to things like FCW) or resizable.

I’m still skeptical of looking down to see a blind spot that’s readily made not-blind by mirrors, no matter where the video feed is on the screen.

Yeah, it's better than nothing but not necessarily that good, especially for moves to the left. I personally however keep the rear view screen on almost permanently (only turn if off if in unfamiliar area and I need to see the map) and it gives a full view of the back, and I find that quite useful.

Thank you for the tip on changing stations, I’ll give that a try!

Thinking about it further, I’d suggest that almost everything that warrants drivers’ visual or tactile attention should ”float” up and to the left on the screen (rather than being pinned to the bottom) and should be relatively large to touch. The positioning of the MPH is the best example of this; I can’t figure out why Tesla wouldn’t put the road speed limit right below that!

Thanks!

Yeah, that is kind of the idea of changing the blind spot camera location. Putting it on bottom made it hard to see and depending on how you hold your steering wheel, you may block it.

 

[PianoAl]

I agree, great eye candy but not useful. Also, when driving locally, there's no need for the map.

I'd like to see prominent speed-related numbers and something like the control page with the most used controls on it.

Also, now would be the time for automakers to agree on a "Compatibility Screen" that would be exactly the same on all cars. Renting a Rolls Royce? Bring up the Compatibility Screen and you'll know where all the controls are.

 

[Candleflame]

I agree, great eye candy but not useful. Also, when driving locally, there's no need for the map.

I'd like to see prominent speed-related numbers and something like the control page with the most used controls on it.

Also, now would be the time for automakers to agree on a "Compatibility Screen" that would be exactly the same on all cars. Renting a Rolls Royce? Bring up the Compatibility Screen and you'll know where all the controls are.

i need the map quite often driving locally.
might be potentially less an issue in the western USA because your roadlayout is more clear than europe (and australia. But I kinda live in a heritage city now with lots of little roads everywhere)

 

[rwiegand]

I find the display to be a little frightening, assuming it represents accurately what the car can see. It's insanely good at orange traffic cones (whoever programmed that bit gets a gold star), however pedestrians, motorcycles, and bicyclists are generally shown late, if ever. That would seem to be a problem.

I'd reduce the size of the display by a third if there's nothing more worthwhile to display. (I'm not thinking of anything.)

 

[Resist]

I find the display to be a little frightening, assuming it represents accurately what the car can see. It's insanely good at orange traffic cones (whoever programmed that bit gets a gold star), however pedestrians, motorcycles, and bicyclists are generally shown late, if ever. That would seem to be a problem.

Just remember what the display shows you is way less than what the computer is actually seeing. Tesla is letting us see some things so we gain confidence in the system.

 

[rwiegand]

Just remember what the display shows you is way less than what the computer is actually seeing. Tesla is letting us see some things so we gain confidence in the system.

I certainly hope and believe that. I'm not sure how letting us see the traffic cone 300 yards ahead and not see the bicyclist crossing the street 20 feet in front of us will build confidence.

 

[father_of_6]

Just remember what the display shows you is way less than what the computer is actually seeing. Tesla is letting us see some things so we gain confidence in the system.

If this is true, then it has backfired... at least for me.

I have *way* less confidence in Tesla's ability to develop an autonomous driving system using cameras after having experienced the visualizations for the past 21 months.

Even while not in motion (e.g. at a red light), other motionless objects jitter in the visualizations... including the very lines in the road. Sometimes objects show that aren't really there.

It's possible these issues have actually gotten better since I first got the car, but I don't look at it too much anymore. It isn't useful in most situations, and certainly would be dangerous to watch it instead if the road while driving.

 

[Resist]

I certainly hope and believe that. I'm not sure how letting us see the traffic cone 300 yards ahead and not see the bicyclist crossing the street 20 feet in front of us will build confidence.

The computer algorithm that is seeing objects and making calculations for that object is different from the algorithm that attaches a graphic representation to it and then shows you on the display. If you look at the early in house Tesla videos for the FSD beta there was a lot of information on the display. But then when the beta was released to a select few outside testers, there were less graphics. Then the graphics changed to be more polished for the general public's eyes. Just like how the graphics show trains as large trucks or backwards vehicles, it can only do so much and can be glitchy. However, that doesn't mean the computer is not seeing objects it's not showing you. It's definitely seeing them, but something buggy in the software didn't let you see it. I really wish there were less graphics on the display because all that's doing is making more and more people want to look at their display instead of paying attention to the road.