MASTER THREAD: 2021 Model 3 - Charge data, battery discussion etc

[FredMt]

You couldn't say better! @AlanSubie4Life
At the very beginning, of the display of the 2021 model3 models ranges values on Tesla web site, I was perfectly aware of the inconsistency of the gain of EPA and WLTP values on the LR model in particular reinforced by the fact that it was not similar for the 2021 M3P .
- Gain between LR 2020 US and LR 2021 US is +50km EPA (518 vs 568)
- Gain between LR 2020 EU and LR 2021 EU is +20km !? WLTP (560 vs 580)

- Gain between M3P 2020 US and M3P 2021 US is +26km EPA (481vs 507)
- Gain between M3P 2020 EU and M3P 2021 EU is +37km WLTP (530vs 567)

I have discussed of that I do not know how many times historically on French forums but no one agreed. Lot of discussions about efficiency etc. Anyway, it was perfectly clear that some things had to be explained...
It is true that it was still difficult to imagine that the answer was that the EU LR batteries allowed less useful capacity than those for US market.
Anyway I think now this point is clear, many thanks to brilliant presentations and video of this forum !

 

[FredMt]

LR 2021 AWD
Vin 831xxx
NMC battery ? Same cells that's in Hyundai Kona EV and Chevy Bolt EV ?

Great ! never see this pack reference before.
LR 2021 E5D LG pack ?
Could you please say if it s a E5D or something else? You have information or sequence "E5D" in reference number on paper homologation of the car.

New STYLE : "SH" and ref : 1522312-00-C
Is it that ? On picture I don t know exactly if it s a 3 or 8.

How many range in km at 100% is display in car, if you know. Thanks

If it s LG E5D, we re talking about MNC811 cells, but i m not perfectly sure of that.

 

[Freddy1]

Great ! never see this pack reference before.
LR 2021 E5D LG pack ?
Could you please say if it s a E5D or something else? You have information or sequence "E5D" in reference number on paper homologation of the car.

New STYLE : "SH" and ref : 1522312-00-C
Is it that ? On picture I don t know exactly if it s a 3 or 8.

How many range in km at 100% is display in car, if you know. Thanks

If it s LG E5D, we re talking about MNC811 cells, but i m not perfectly sure of that.

I think this is the LG E5D(Made in China) the E3D cars have "Made in USA" i think. Have not got the registration document yet, will come by mail next week, so im not 100 % sure.

STYLE : "SH" and ref : 1522312-00-C is correct.
Have not charged to 100 %, but in the app i get 534 km when you drag the charge limit to 100 %.

 

[FredMt]

I think this is the LG E5D(Made in China) the E3D cars have "Made in USA" i think. Have not got the registration document yet, will come by mail next week, so im not 100 % sure.

STYLE : "SH" and ref : 1522312-00-C is correct.
Have not charged to 100 %, but in the app i get 534 km when you drag the charge limit to 100 %.

E5D seems to me the most credible hypothesis too :
- you re right, for E3D it is mentioned Made in USA
- I don't think anyone has seen the E5D pack label here yet, at least not me and the STYLE and reference you report are different from anything I know until now.
- as far we know, E5D packs are made in China and then integrated at Fremont in LRs for the European market.

Thanks in advance for your feedback as soon you will have documents of the car.

 

[Marius A]

E5D seems to me the most credible hypothesis too :
- you re right, for E3D it is mentioned Made in USA
- I don't think anyone has seen the E5D pack label here yet, at least not me and the STYLE and reference you report are different from anything I know until now.
- as far we know, E5D packs are made in China and then integrated at Fremont in LRs for the European market.

Thanks in advance for your feedback as soon you will have documents of the car.

Why do we think it's made in China?

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

Why do we think it's made in China?

It says so on the label! And SH might mean ShangHai FWIW (not sure about that). But MADE IN CHINA is about as definitive as we get here.

 

[Filip K]

Finally got my battery label on E5D EU LR delivered on 12/2020 build in Fremont, USA. Not very happy with the battery charging/discharging performance. And a surprise? Whole battery pack made in CHINA.

My degradation curve
My video

 

[TimothyHW3]

My video

You have the full 75kWh "usable", not 70.
You don't have "50%" less charging "performance".
Not sure what mean by "discharging performance".

All other LR cars capped to the same capacity as your battery.

You should uninstall that teslalogger thing, it is incorrect.

Hope that helps.

 

[Filip K]

You have the full 75kWh "usable", not 70.
You don't have "50%" less charging "performance".
Not sure what mean by "discharging performance".

All other LR cars capped to the same capacity as your battery.

You should uninstall that teslalogger thing, it is incorrect.

Hope that helps.

Video details corrected. Teslalogger is correct, I'm waiting for a CAN Bus cable. Discharging performance = car has much worse performance on lower SoC than our 2020 Pana.

 

[Marius A]

It says so on the label! And SH might mean ShangHai FWIW (not sure about that). But MADE IN CHINA is about as definitive as we get

My bad, didn't see it in he picture

Video details corrected. Teslalogger is correct, I'm waiting for a CAN Bus cable. Discharging performance = car has much worse performance on lower SoC than our 2020 Pana.

My 2021 TM3P with he new Panasonic has he same behavior, so "luckily" that part is not related to LG.

 

[TimothyHW3]

much worse performance on lower SoC than our 2020 Pana.

Define "much worse"? According to the latest Nyland Test it performs normal. The only difference is that the heat pump sucks too much temperature from the battery so your battery was mostly cold.

And no, Teslalogfer is not correct it extrapolates values without taking temperature into account. But you obviously know better.

 

[Filip K]

Define "much worse"? According to the latest Nyland Test it performs normal. The only difference is that the heat pump sucks too much temperature from the battery so your battery was mostly cold.

And no, Teslalogfer is not correct it extrapolates values without taking temperature into account. But you obviously know better.

Probably you don´t see my Teslalogger. It is the best curve in the whole fleet. I don't have any TSLA and I'm only reporting what I'm seeing. Definitely, if I know, that the pack is built in China and then shipped to the USA and then shipped to the EU, I will reject the car just because of this chain, which I simply do not like.

 

[TomaGo]

- Gain between LR 2020 US and LR 2021 US is +50km EPA (518 vs 568)
- Gain between LR 2020 EU and LR 2021 EU is +20km !? WLTP (560 vs 580)
I have discussed of that I do not know how many times historically on French forums but no one agreed. Lot of discussions about efficiency etc.

I agree ! The gains are not consistent, and now we understand why.

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

Finally got my battery label on E5D EU LR delivered on 12/2020 build in Fremont, USA. Not very happy with the battery charging/discharging performance. And a surprise? Whole battery pack made in CHINA.

My degradation curve
My video
View attachment 623573

Thanks to those owners sending in their pack labels and associated data. Helps fill in our data on pack part numbers. It does appear from these reports that these specifically images are from the E5D packs, which are around 75-75.5kWh capacity when new (check SMT reports of Nominal Full Pack for the exact details, but this is within 0.5kWh or so). Would be good to get another image from an LG E5D owner in Europe just for verification that cars with these packs have actually been shipped to the EU (we've seen the clear SMT captures showing 74.5kWh from Europe, but I don't recall seeing the associated battery pack label for that exact capture).

"Full Pack When New" (FPWN) is hard coded value not reflective of actual initial pack capacity.

1522312-00-C: LG - ~75kWh (EU E5D AWDs). ("FPWN" 74.5kWh from some SMT reports). (Validation of this Czech Republic report needed.)
1104423-00-P: Pana - ~77.8kWh (soft locked to ~75kWh in EU) (US, and EU E3D AWDs) ("FPWN" 77.8kWh)
1104423-0L-P, 1104423-0L-P: Pana - ~80.7kWh (range: 79kWh-81.5kWh) - EU Performance and US Performance. ("FPWN" 82.1kWh) Tesla terminology seems to call this "2170L" cell.

1104423-00: Pana - 77.8kWh (???) (EU 2021 Performance; unverified report, from France)

Some of this is from memory, so if there are any mistakes please correct them.

 

[TimothyHW3]

I don't have any TSLA

Yeah, you should've just started with that. Another Fudster...

 

[Filip K]

Yeah, you should've just started with that. Another Fudster...

Hahaha. I paid 70 000USD for my Model 3 and I expected well-known properties. These I didn't get.

 

[FredMt]

Thanks to those owners sending in their pack labels and associated data.

May I ask a question :
Why don t you keep STYLE reference of the sticker too ?
Is it because the information is not useful? or does not make sense?
It seems that it is different according to the packs:
CB: M3P
BB: E3D
SH: E5D

 

[Korgmatose]

The question remains: armed with this knowledge, can anything be DONE about it? Yell at Tesla, demand an uncork, anything?

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

May I ask a question :
Why don t you keep STYLE reference of the sticker too ?
Is it because the information is not useful? or does not make sense?
It seems that it is different according to the packs:
CB: M3P
BB: E3D
SH: E5D

Seems fine to keep track of that too! It's not clear that it adds information right now, but no sense not keeping track.

 

[Acxxu]

Since you don’t have SMT there is not much else needed. Your car has at least 80.1kWh capacity. It may have more if it is warmer.

Thanks. I actually also had coincidentally taken couple of pictures of a 100% supercharge with only 527km on the odometer (temperature shows as +1'C) in which my European M3P shows 498km and 309 miles.

IIRC, the car would've still continued charging at the Tesla supercharger, but as it was my 2nd ever stop at one I didn't dare to keep it running or keep the stall reserved from others.