MASTER THREAD: 2021 Model 3 - Charge data, battery discussion etc

[AlanSubie4Life]

I tried to search but couldn't find it... Do we have a picture of the max range in a 21 Model 3 LR with E3D in the US?

Yeah. Not sure if there is an actual picture (there is pre update, from same member), but we don’t really need it (we have the pre-update value and there is no mystery about how this works in the US). It’s 353 miles, 568km.

2021 Model 3 - Charge data

There may be other pictures around, not sure.

 

[TimothyHW3]

I tried to search but couldn't find it... Do we have a picture of the max range in a 21 Model 3 LR with E3D in the US?

@kxts is the only one providing those so far, but he isn't replying after the update. Would be great if he can chime in and it would be even better, if someone can get them scan my tesla and read out the battery.

 

[FredMt]

Yes and I realize, unless I'm mistaken, that we don t have a picture of 2021 LR E3D US pack. It s supposed to be " BB 1104423-00-P " but all pictures linked above come from European LR E3D. Perhaps a surprise ?

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

@kxts is the only one providing those so far, but he isn't replying after the update. Would be great if he can chime in and it would be even better, if someone can get them scan my tesla and read out the battery.

Post-update value is above; 352 rated miles with a cool but not cold battery, as expected. Not supercharged to that level.

Picture shows nearly zero regen at 100%.

Pictures from SMT and energy screen would be great, of course. But clearly the battery is full (looks completely different - much less regen -than Europe pictures of regen at 100%!), so will be near 77.8kWh (probably 77.6kWh for 352 miles).

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

Yes and I realize, unless I'm mistaken, that we don t have a picture of 2021 LR E3D US pack. It s suppose to be BB 1104423-00-P but all picture linked above come from European LR E3D. Perhaps a surprise ?

Would be great to have them, but Americans are too busy catching COVID.

Also their batteries are behaving exactly as expected so I think less incentive for pictures. Not sure.

Anyway it would be great to have some pictures. We’re not going to see an LG pack in the US, I don’t think, since that would be illegal without a new EPA test (the vehicle in the US was apparently tested with ~3kWh more energy than the one in Europe - anyone got those WLTP test documents?). But we’ll see.

Would love to see the full 353 rated miles at some point, with the associated SMT if possible. Always nice to see SMT readbacks from brand new batteries at 100%. Tells us a lot.

 

[Marius A]

Just calculated my 100%, odometer at 900km.
Put display to energy, showed km. Started on 81%, calculated to about 79.6kW
2 minutes later it dropped to 80% (lucky!), now calculated to 80.49kW.
Drove ~200 meters, got new numbers and calculated to 80.577kW

Which I guess is very average for a '21 TM3P

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

Just calculated my 100%, odometer at 900km.
Put display to energy, showed km. Started on 81%, calculated to about 79.6kW
2 minutes later it dropped to 80% (lucky!), now calculated to 80.49kW.
Drove ~200 meters, got new numbers and calculated to 80.577kW

Which I guess is very average for a '21 TM3P

Remember with this calculation there are only two significant figures. So the best you can say is ~80kWh. Any more precision is meaningless unless you are using one of several methods to find the actual fractional part of your % charge (or SMT of course but then you don't need to calculate).

Range for SMT from Performance seems to be from 79???kWh to 81.5kWh, so far. (Not sure on the lower limit - I think that one was calculated based on a miles number, not sure what the minimum SMT value so far is.)

 

[Marius A]

Remember with this calculation there are only two significant figures. So the best you can say is ~80kWh. Any more precision is meaningless unless you are using one of several methods to find the actual fractional part of your % charge (or SMT of course but then you don't need to calculate).

Range for SMT from Performance seems to be from 79???kWh to 81.5kWh, so far. (Not sure on the lower limit - I think that one was calculated based on a miles number, not sure what the minimum SMT value so far is.)

Guess I'll have to buy an SMT pack. Does the one in the foot well work?

 

[FredMt]

RE: Weird performance pack.



I would just like to have him provide that picture of the energy screen that allows calculation of battery capacity (%, recent efficiency, and projected range, at a high SoC%). No need to wait for SMT.

Very important to read SMT data - cell voltage when full, nominal full and nominal full remaining and als
../..

Here is a real photo report from Arnaud. Thanks a lot to him !
It seems to be a 79kWh pack with a little degradation no ?
He will watch with SMT as soon as he has it installed (- at the moment his splitter cable is in order).

Batterie de 82 kWh sur la Model 3 Grande Autonomie version 2021

 

[Gasaraki]

Terrible charging speed on the 2021 panasonic 82 kWh vs the 2019 one.
Is this physical or is it just a software nerf that will be lifted? Kinda ironic if 2021 Performance charges SLOWER than a 2019 LR.

Did you even watch the whole video?

1. The new Panasonic is a bigger pack than the LG yet it own finished a few seconds slower than the LG. So overall it was faster.
2. The 2019 is also a Panasonic battery so obviously it's just software tuning that's needed. They will probably ramp up the charging speed once more 2021s are out in the field.

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

Here is a real photo report from Arnaud. Thanks a lot to him !
It seems to be a 79kWh pack with a little degradation no ?
He will watch with SMT as soon as he has it installed (- at the moment his splitter cable is in order).

Batterie de 82 kWh sur la Model 3 Grande Autonomie version 2021

Calculates to 78.1kWh.

To me it just looks like a 77.8kWh pack, pushed to the limit. Which is not surprising given the old part code (it's the same part number as the other 77.8kWh packs, just with a different revision number...so we wouldn't expect it to have the new 2170L cells).

I'd be sad if I were him.

Unfortunately his picture was not taken in "Drive" or unlocked state, so we can't see how much regen he has. As we know, it's possible for there to be a software lock on a pack that actually has more capacity, and there's no way we would know, without SMT, or paying attention to the regen at 100%.

But I suspect he has nearly no regen at 100% and has a 78kWh pack with no hidden capacity. But we will see what SMT says (maybe).

I have no idea how this is ok for the Performance. Maybe the WLTP test in Europe for the Performance was done with a 78kWh battery? (I haven't tried to work out the numbers, working back from EPA efficiencies, and comparing to prior WLTP results for Performance, to see whether that is plausible.)

Pretty sure we will never see such a pack in a 2021 Performance in the US. (Unless they do a new Performance- EPA test.)

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

Guess I'll have to buy an SMT pack. Does the one in the foot well work?

I have no idea; never have used SMT. All I know is from perusing data captures here.

If you Supercharge to 100% and get your rated miles at 100% with a decently warm battery I think that tells you most of what you need to know (just my opinion) about the battery available energy. If you want all that other info, detect additional unavailable capacity that is locked, and really to understand what the car is doing at any particular time, then SMT is helpful.

As I recall your numbers were a bit on the low side, but it is difficult to assess in a chilly climate, when not charging to 100% and making sure the battery is held there at a warm temperature for a bit. You're way above a typical LR though, by at least 2kWh.

 

[Marius A]

Not sure if this has any value, but for my last 10km (-2C, ~80km/h) I'm averaging 168Wh/km (270Wh/m)
Climate on auto, 19.5C, 18" T-Sportline TST Flow Forged Conti VikingContact7 235/8.5"+45/18"
My right foot is heavy.

 

[FredMt]

Unfortunately his picture was not taken in "Drive" or unlocked state, so we can't see how much regen he has. As we know, it's possible for there to be a software lock on a pack that actually has more capacity, and there's no way we would know, without SMT, or paying attention to the regen at 100%.

The 5th picture from the top of the post ( where he is saying "Me suis calé sur le 167 Wh/km sur 10 km et 89 %") : Average 167 km estimated range 420 km at 89%, it seems to me that it is in "drive" .
I did not know about regen. In addition, what sort of screen or sequences/parameters do you need ?

Perhaps his battery is not calibrate yet, no supercharger near his home.

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

The 5th picture from the top of the post ( where he is saying "Me suis calé sur le 167 Wh/km sur 10 km et 89 %") : Average 167 km estimated range 420 km at 89%, it seems to me that it is in "drive" .
I did not know about regen. In addition, what sort of screen or sequences/parameters do you need ?

Perhaps his battery is not calibrate yet, no supercharger near his home.

Oops. Just looked at the first picture!

At 99% he has very little regen in those pictures (obviously, it DOES depend on battery temperature, so we can't be 100% sure). Compare to 100% pictures in this thread - it is much less regen than those pictures here at 100% show. Thanks to @khelge. Some examples of a (warm) E3D charged to "100%"

So his battery is likely very nearly full. If he happened to have a very cold battery (it's 11C, which is definitely cold enough to matter for this) in that picture, then we can't be sure. But, it looks pretty minimal, at 99%.

10 regen dots at 100% on a HOT E3D pack, vs. 18 regen dots at 99% on an unknown pack at unknown temp.

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

10 regen dots at 100% on a HOT E3D pack, vs. 18 regen dots at 99% on an unknown pack at unknown temp.

Should add: this scale is not linear. This is a HUGE difference in regen power available. (You can see he only hits 10 regen dots at 89%...)


Also, closest estimate (from SMT interpolation of results in Bjorn's video detailed earlier) of the constant is ~161.6Wh/rkm on this Performance vehicle. So this pack in the picture showing 485km @ 100% implies 78.4kWh is what would be seen at 485rkm in SMT.

(Looking at the discussion in your link - remember the solid line on the Energy screen will be at about 165Wh/rkm, not 162Wh/rkm. Because of "reasons." It just is; no one knows why, and it is the source of constant "constant confusion." Constant is about 161.6Wh/rkm.)

 

[khelge]

This is what regen looks like 5 meters after completing a full 100% on supercharger with a preheated battery with the new UI on my 21 LR E3D. As you can see there's a huge difference in available regen compared to him

 

[artofsnow]

Those are the 3 "well known" issues with the LFP battery in the cold, unfortunately ... the story came out in the news in early December, reports from China, just before the first ship with Shanghai made TM3 SR+ arrived in Europe and, since then, owners from different European countries (Germany, France, Spain ... which is not such a cold country) have reported the same. You can find several youtube videos showing/explaining this and some articles like Tesla Model 3 with LFP Battery Has a Cold and Range Problem | Torque News .

There's a new SW update (2020.48.30.1) being rolled out .... and apparently, only SR+ models with China VIN are receiving it at the moment.
Hopefully, this SW will include some fixes to those issues.

 

[TimothyHW3]

It seems to be a 79kWh pack with a little degradation no

This is a performance car, not interesting, didn't he say he has a LR?!

 

[TimothyHW3]

The 2019 is also a Panasonic battery so obviously it's just software tuning that's needed

The 2021 Panasonic especially the 82 ones have other chemistry. Also, it seems there are different variants circulating so we don't really know if it is just software or the new cells require lower charging speed.