MASTER THREAD: 2021 Model 3 - Charge data, battery discussion etc

[GeorgeSymonds]

Customers in Germany get the COC in paper up to four weeks in advance. Ask them specifically if they find E5D or E3LD in their system.

You can also pull a token via these instructions and via the token pull your option codes. If this list contains BT42 you are very likely to get the larger 82kWh pack.

Tesla option codes

Tesla option codes and what they mean

tesla-info.com

That web site says Tesla return a generic build string so its not worth doing.

Probably the best way to be sure of what you get (and even that is no guarantee the way Tesla do what they want) is to order from inventory from that site and pick a car with the right battery pack.

 

[simeriaionut]

"We cannot send COC by mail, and we cannot hand it over to the customer until they have paid and get the car delivered. However, we can easily have it printed out to you for your delivery day.

Tesla has never confirmed that it is a 82 kwh battery and therefore I cannot confirm it for you either. But the car you get is as I said with the latest things on the market as the car has only just been produced and therefore it is not available better and for this you will get up to 614 km in range."

This is what I got from the SA, I'm not sure I will be able to find out more until the delivery day...

 

[eivissa]

"We cannot send COC by mail, and we cannot hand it over to the customer until they have paid and get the car delivered. However, we can easily have it printed out to you for your delivery day.

Tesla has never confirmed that it is a 82 kwh battery and therefore I cannot confirm it for you either. But the car you get is as I said with the latest things on the market as the car has only just been produced and therefore it is not available better and for this you will get up to 614 km in range."

This is what I got from the SA, I'm not sure I will be able to find out more until the delivery day...

Well, if they put the 614km in writing, then I wouldnt worry. 75kWh wont get you 614km, so the two values cancel each other out.

 

[AAKEE]

E3LD Capacity is difficult, but Full Pack When New value seems confusing in comparison to the other cars. 80,5 would be a fair value, 81,4 would be a realistic maximum. Range effectively seems to drop when going below 80,4...

I did a trip to Tesla Service center this morning, which newly opened ”only” 300 km away.

So I thought it would be a good idea to charge to the charging stops at full. Earlier I have reached 100% with charging but disconnected before the charging stopped. Failed this time as well, was helping a friend in the garage so my car got into the charger some 45 minutes after my plan. So there was still another 30 minutes until charging complete according to the car.

But, It showed 81.9 as Nominal remaining and the NFP value climbed from the steady 81.4 to 81.5kWh.
The question is how much more it had got if I’d had the time to let it finish the charging.
I’m thinking that the talk about the 82.1kWh battery not being 82.1kWh is more about using the value from the BMS NFP that maybe underestimates the capacity.
(This was 0400 in the morning and I didnt have or take the time to check cell voltages etc. but pack voltage reported as 403v = should be close to 4.200v/cell)

The reported range climbed to 509km, which I didnt know it could.

 

[eivissa]

I did a trip to Tesla Service center this morning, which newly opened ”only” 300 km away.

So I thought it would be a good idea to charge to the charging stops at full. Earlier I have reached 100% with charging but disconnected before the charging stopped. Failed this time as well, was helping a friend in the garage so my car got into the charger some 45 minutes after my plan. So there was still another 30 minutes until charging complete according to the car.

But, It showed 81.9 as Nominal remaining and the NFP value climbed from the steady 81.4 to 81.5kWh.
The question is how much more it had got if I’d had the time to let it finish the charging.
I’m thinking that the talk about the 82.1kWh battery not being 82.1kWh is more about using the value from the BMS NFP that maybe underestimates the capacity.
(This was 0400 in the morning and I didnt have or take the time to check cell voltages etc. but pack voltage reported as 403v = should be close to 4.200v/cell)

The reported range climbed to 509km, which I didnt know it could.



View attachment 664085
View attachment 664086

That is very good news indeed. Either you have one hell of a good battery or you have calibrated your BMS wisely.
My special rate of 10€ per charge is expiring by the end of may. Then I will switch to a daily charge of 60% and see how the BMS values are changing.

 

[eivissa]

We've done our SMT scan on the new E3LD Long Range:

• Everything as expected
• It is completely identical with the 2021 Performance and not restricted / locked.
• Nominal Full Pack was a little low with 79,1 initially, but ended charging at 80,5 with a high cell imbalance. Only 125km on the clock.
• The range peaked at 79kWh with 571km.
• Rated consumption should be 140Wh/km!?
• Expected update down to 136Wh/km -> 590-595km...
• We didnt wait until charging complete, but the charge rate was below 1KW and we were both on a rush to work.
• Once this pack is balanced it will probably charge to around 81,0 and with some 60% charging we can aim for @AAKEE's values

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

We've done our SMT scan on the new E3LD Long Range:

• Everything as expected
• It is completely identical with the 2021 Performance and not restricted / locked.
• Nominal Full Pack was a little low with 79,1 initially, but ended charging at 80,5 with a high cell imbalance. Only 125km on the clock.
• We didnt wait until charging complete, but the charge rate was below 1KW and we were both on a rush to work.
• Once this pack is balanced it will probably charge to around 81,0 and with some 60% charging we can aim for @AAKEE's values

Interesting. This vehicle seems to have a constant of something like 141Wh/rkm. Not 137Wh/rkm.

Can you take a couple pictures of Energy Consumption screen (one in distance and one in energy display mode) showing all three key numbers (%/rated remaining, proj range, recent efficiency), to let us see how that screen looks and calculate the constant?

To me it seems this vehicle “should” display about 590km (imbalance makes things a little uncertain...if it eventually charges to @AAKEE values it would be 595rkm...) if it were using the same constant as the prior LR. Which would be 365 rated miles...

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

We've done our SMT scan on the new E3LD Long Range:

• Everything as expected
• It is completely identical with the 2021 Performance and not restricted / locked.
• Nominal Full Pack was a little low with 79,1 initially, but ended charging at 80,5 with a high cell imbalance. Only 125km on the clock.
• We didnt wait until charging complete, but the charge rate was below 1KW and we were both on a rush to work.
• Once this pack is balanced it will probably charge to around 81,0 and with some 60% charging we can aim for @AAKEE's values

Interesting. This vehicle seems to have a constant of something like 141Wh/rkm. Not 137Wh/rkm.

Can you take a couple pictures of Energy Consumption screen (one in distance and one in energy display mode) showing all three key numbers (%/rated remaining, proj range, recent efficiency), to let us see how that screen looks and calculate the constant?

To me it seems this vehicle “should” display about 590km (imbalance makes things a little uncertain) if it were using the same constant as the prior LR. Which would be 365 rated miles....

On @AAKEE values I am kind of wondering if they have tweaked software recently to allow higher nominal full pack, but it may just be temperature effects, etc. I guess it would be interesting to see if it has changed for others. Also I wonder if we have the constant right for the Performance...his new values imply 160Wh/rkm or so...all a bit confusing. Energy screen details would be nice there too. % and distance display mode. Just to double check...

 

[eivissa]

This vehicle seems to have a constant of something like 141Wh/rkm. Not 137Wh/rkm.

Yes, I agree. The range indication is limited via a synthetically high consumption value of around 140Wh/km.

Can you take a couple pictures of Energy Consumption screen

I don't have the car anymore, but we have had one driver in the Forum confirm my guess that the lines cross at 140Wh/km. Didn't see it myself.

I am kind of wondering if they have tweaked software recently to allow higher nominal full pack

My guess that this is all his charging technique. I will try this myself from June.

Performance...his values implies 160Wh/rkm or so

My guess is 158Wh/km, but we will see.
E3LD LR range stops increasing at 79,0
E3LD P range stops increasing at 80,6

I wonder if they match the two capacity levels in a future update. 80,6 / 0,136 = 593. That looks about right.

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

I don't have the car anymore, but we have had one driver in the Forum confirm my guess that the lines cross at 140Wh/km. Didn't see it myself.

Don’t need the lines. But the line is always 3Wh/km higher than the constant, so 140Wh/km implies 137Wh/km for the constant. Confusing, I know! Constant confusion, literally.

Just need the 3 (or 4 with %) numbers with two pictures, one in distance and one in energy display mode. No need to drive to the line (typically - not sure how it works with hard caps on range).

My guess is 158Wh/km, but we will see.
E3LD LR range stops increasing at 79,0
E3LD P range stops increasing at 80,6

Good info. I can’t keep track! Does it start decreasing right away or is it more of a hard cap that stays that way for a few km?

Yeah 158-159Wh/km has been the value. Just weird to see a hard cap like this for @AAKEE, but it’s not unusual I know - the situation is just not really well documented in how it behaves exactly when energy exceeds the nominal constant*max_display_range...

 

[eivissa]

Does it start decreasing right away or is it more of a hard cap that stays that way for a few km?

My observations were / hopefully I remember it correctly:
2020 P 77.8 -> 499km until dropping below 77.1
2021 P 82.1 -> 508km until dropping below 80.6
2021 LR 82.1 -> 567km until dropping below 79.0

 

[MyCabbages]

Don’t need the lines. But the line is always 3Wh/km higher than the constant, so 140Wh/km implies 137Wh/km for the constant. Confusing, I know! Constant confusion, literally.

Just need the 3 (or 4 with %) numbers with two pictures, one in distance and one in energy display mode. No need to drive to the line (typically - not sure how it works with hard caps on range).

Good info. I can’t keep track! Does it start decreasing right away or is it more of a hard cap that stays that way for a few km?

Yeah 158-159Wh/km has been the value. Just weird to see a hard cap like this for @AAKEE, but it’s not unusual I know - the situation is just not really well documented in how it behaves exactly when energy exceeds the nominal constant*max_display_range...

My observations were / hopefully I remember it correctly:
2020 P 77.8 -> 499km until dropping below 77.1
2021 P 82.1 -> 508km until dropping below 80.6
2021 LR 82.1 -> 567km until dropping below 79.0

Just wanted to say thank you for the great insight the two of you provide. I have been following this thread for a while and I just placed an LR AWD order. Hoping for the unrestricted 82 kWh battery. Whether the correct range estimation is shown or not, as long as the capacity is there for me to use I'll be happy!

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

My observations were / hopefully I remember it correctly:
2020 P 77.8 -> 499km until dropping below 77.1
2021 P 82.1 -> 508km until dropping below 80.6
2021 LR 82.1 -> 567km until dropping below 79.0

Your example of the LR 82.1 above shows a cap of 570km though...and @AAKEE cap seems to be 509km. But pretty close.

I see. So if that were the case the constants we have (158-159Wh/km, 137Wh/km, etc.) would appear correct.

I’m still curious what the energy screen would show at a full charge though in this case. I suspect that when the owner charges his late 2021 LR 82.1kWh to 100% at ~570km, with ~81kWh, the energy screen would imply he has a range of 591km at 137Wh/km. Rather than what the range indicator says. The difference of course is those 3 extra kWh taking it from ~77.8kWh to ~81kWh.

Would be sort of interesting to see that energy screen on the new vehicle when it is charged to 100%. I guess we will see. Hard to get details from people.

 

[eivissa]

LR is 567-571 and P is 508-509. This must be some comma value / rounding thing. I am typing on my phone at work, so the intention was to keep it short

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

LR is 567-571 and P is 508-509. This must be some comma value / rounding thing. I am typing on my phone at work, so the intention was to keep it short

Yep, I understand and figured that, no problem. I hope you can convince this guy to take another 100% picture of the energy screen - capturing:

1) Rated range remaining (next to battery icon). In a separate picture, switch to "energy" display mode and capture % SoC (presumably 100%).

2) Recent efficiency (average of 5/15/30km, whichever one, average mode, just not instantaneous).

3) Projected range.

4) Concurrent SMT screen capture showing the CAN bus energy corresponding at the exact same time (no charging ongoing).

So two pictures, three numbers in each picture (as listed above). Plus screen captures from SMT.

I guess we'll see. This is like the holy grail (especially if it is combined with a concurrent SMT capture), so I doubt we will get the pictures.

Just let the guy know that it's not required to align the recent efficiency line with the "rated line." That's a pain, and it's also completely unnecessary. For the above pictures you don't even need to drive.

 

[AAKEE]

I took the opportunity to supercharge going home from SC. Didnt need to charge as the guys at the SC filled it up for me so this was just for the sake of this thread. At the Servicecenter they gave it back to me with 73%. When I got it the NFP was 81.2.

After supercharging I had NFP 81.5kWh, and Nominal remaining 81.9kWh. Thats the exact same number as this morning.
I didnt have the patience to wait until it said charging complete so the charging power was about to go down from 2kW to 1 kW. I think it wouldnt have increased these numbers. When I stopped charging I had seen those 81.5 / 81.9 numbers for a while.

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

I took the opportunity to supercharge going home from SC. Didnt need to charge as the guys at the SC filled it up for me so this was just for the sake of this thread. At the Servicecenter they gave it back to me with 73%. When I got it the NFP was 81.2.

After supercharging I had NFP 81.5kWh, and Nominal remaining 81.9kWh. Thats the exact same number as this morning.
I didnt have the patience to wait until it said charging complete so the charging power was about to go down from 2kW to 1 kW. I think it wouldnt have increased these numbers. When I stopped charging I had seen those 81.5 / 81.9 numbers for a while.

No corresponding energy screen pictures though. I has a sad.

Gonna go out on a limb (not really) and guess it would have shown the following though:

~515km projected range at 159Wh/km
~455km projected range at 180Wh/km
~410km projected range at 200Wh/km

etc. (81.9kWh divided by your recent efficiency)

 

[AAKEE]

No corresponding energy screen pictures though. I has a sad.

View attachment 664336

Ohh, I missed that part. Havent read all todays posts, and most not that thourogh.
I had all the time to take those pics...

Good thinking to grab those...next time?

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

Ohh, I missed that part. Havent read all todays posts, and most not that thourogh.
I had all the time to take those pics...

Good thinking to grab those...next time?

Sure...as I appended above...don't think it will be earth-shattering, but definitely good to see still. It should just tell you your capacity is 81.9kWh (maybe it will be 81.5kWh, but I'm not sure). So the numbers should multiply to that.

Hopefully we'll get it from the new LR with the 82.1kWh battery though. Just one set of pictures in that 100% state from that vehicle should resolve this "unknown" (the behavior of which has probably already been documented somewhere, but I don't remember, and it's good to see it again on that unusual new vehicle).

 

[TimothyHW3]

Hoping for the unrestricted 82 kWh battery.

Not so sure about North America. You should try and get an OBD reader to see if it has the real 82kWh. Tesla isn't advertising it yet.