MASTER THREAD: 2021 Model 3 - Charge data, battery discussion etc

[AlanSubie4Life]

It seems the car still displays 353 miles so I guess the Model 3 LR delivered in the states continue to either use the old batteries or are soft locked too

Likely one of those things. Until we see a modification in the data available on the EPA website we likely won’t see a change in the vehicles. Seems like they might hold off on anything until end of Q2 or later to help spur demand - if needed - right now, no need.

We will know pretty soon. 580 to 615 is roughly or almost exactly 6%. That is roughly 79.5/80kWh to about 75kWh locked Panasonic or LG.

Yeah in the US all we have is the CARB document (LR CARB Result), which only shows 6% increase in UDDS cycle. But that’s a 6% increase from the UDDS value (494.54 miles) used to weigh at 55% in the US 353-mile value.

So roughly speaking, scaling to WLTP, that would be 580km* 77.8/75 * 1.06 = 640km

(Scale 580km WLTP by current (approx) US capacity/EU capacity ratio, then scale by the updated CARB UDDS range increase of ~6%.)

And yes this would be consistent with your idea that a 615km value is going to be sold in Europe which would be a software-locked value (just a scale up of the existing lock by 6%). This implies a fairly large 82.5kWh capacity (unlocked) though, so perhaps a small efficiency change comes into play too.

If only the US people would mind telling us what their full charge is and their VIN and production dates.

I think you will hear about it. The range increase will likely be announced and be a big deal. Which battery vehicles are equipped with may be a more subtle thing.

What you really want is SMT readback from these folks, or failing that, pictures of their regen bars at “100%” SoC. And pictures of their battery label. Not really much otherwise to see right now. Any extra energy will stay locked away for now though, even if it is there.

The way the CARB document is structured with two entries, rather than a superseding entry, it looks to me like in the US they may plan to sell two different trim levels (a long range and a “longer range”), possibly only differentiated by software, but we’ll see. Just speculation.

 

[thinger]

If you can get really 640km with new battery and that is still sw lock to 614km wltp. Then Performance with 567km wltp means that Performance use very much energy. If they don't have also sw locked Performance battery.

 

[FredMt]

If you can get really 640km with new battery and that is still sw lock to 614km wltp. Then Performance with 567km wltp means that Performance use very much energy. If they don't have also sw locked Performance battery.

~ 14% less consumption for LR 2021 E3LD 136/137 Wh /km vs TM3P 2021 with 159Wh/km.

 

[eivissa]

Some users report a NFP around I would say 79,6 kWh.

I've seen 79,2kWh as the lowest in a Performance with only 3000km parked in a Garage and charged daily by someone who understands EV's.

I have report too 2 SAV pack

Help me with this...SAV means?

It seems the car still displays 353 miles so I guess the Model 3 LR delivered in the states continue to either use the old batteries or are soft locked too.

My best guess is, since the deliveries of E3CD (old 79' softlocked) to Europe have stopped completely in Q2, that these capacities are still running on at least one production line for the US until the announcement of the 82'.
E5D LG is also still on the table for Europe. Some were built as late es mid of April! Some people ordered a 614km car and received an E5D COC with 580km! Most people returned the papers and asked for a new VIN, but one user now reported that Tesla said he is taking the E5D or he will be blocked for a couple of months. I guess Tesla is starting to pull out the big guns :-(

And yes this would be consistent with your idea that a 615km value is going to be sold in Europe which would be a software-locked value

I still highly doubt that there is and will be a 82kWh soft-locked battery.
614km could still well be the figure they are advertising as the range without the buffer. Although I know the numbers are all weird...
As late as next week we will know as I will have the opportunity to connect SMT to a new E3LD Long Range and also have a look at the sticker.

To finish this off. I have charged mine to 100% today after 10.000km in five months. Still 81kWh like on day one.
Still no private charging at home, so using the charger when I reach 20% in normal usage or 5% when returning from a journey then always up to 90% and once a month to 100% just before leaving. Also using the car as a performance car and enjoying every bit of its power (Bat Power Peak today was 425KW!)

Edit: Cell Imbalance dropped to 4mV when arriving at my destination with 87% SoC.

 

[thinger]

~ 14% less consumption for LR 2021 E3LD 136/137 Wh /km vs TM3P 2021 with 159Wh/km.

But still on paper 640km is marked range but WLTP is saying 614km. When you add 14% to 567km this make 640+ km.

But when you example check EV database rating Performance is 165Wh/km and LR is 152Wh/km. Then difference is only about 8% and when you add that to 567km you get about 614km.

And if we look vehicle consumption based on that database information, then difference is about 10%. Then range is about 623km.

With rated difference is 11% and range is then about 629km.

This details show me more that LR with 82kwh pack WLTP is 614km.

So where then this 640km is coming? Totally random number.

EV Database

A complete overview of all electric vehicles in Europe. Search and compare by range, make, model and price.

ev-database.org

 

[TomaGo]

You have a very good battery ! Hope mine is as good as yours

 

[FredMt]

Help me with this...SAV means

Just (little) cases of implementation of 82kWh pack (confirmed by reference) in LR 2021.
One is here MASTER THREAD: 2021 Model 3 - Charge data, battery discussion etc
Perhaps pack is not perfectly well balance.

614km could still well be the figure they are advertising as the range without the buffer. Although I know the numbers are all weird...

It could be, but it's difficult to believe to a displayed without buffer, it would be a change for Tesla.
I agree ! ... some inconsistency, i would like to understand.

Also using the car as a performance car and enjoying every bit of its power (Bat Power Peak today was 425KW!)

Great ! it s a so fantastic car !

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

I have charged mine to 100% today after 10.000km in five months. Still 81kWh like on day one.

Maybe in addition to the new higher capacity cells, they've fixed the capacity loss problems. (A little early to tell though - and there's a huge element of luck manufacture date dependence to this of course.)

I still highly doubt that there is and will be a 82kWh soft-locked battery.
614km could still well be the figure they are advertising as the range without the buffer. Although I know the numbers are all weird...
As late as next week we will know as I will have the opportunity to connect SMT to a new E3LD Long Range and also have a look at the sticker.

Yes, the numbers are very strange!

614km/580km = 1.059 so that's the required scalar, with or without efficiency improvement.

If we assume the 136Wh/km instead of 137Wh/km 0.7% improvement, that means we'd need 5.1% more energy. That would be 75.3kWh*1.051 = 79.1kWh. (Sorry if I can't get the numbers straight - 75.3kWh is from the 550km alleged max displayed range * 137Wh/km in LG packs - correction welcome - just use the correct value if this is wrong.)

(614km*136Wh/km / 580*137Wh/km ) = 1.051 (Ignore the values - obviously WLTP and EPA efficiency values can't be multiplied in this fashion)

80.6kWh is a 7% increase.

The buffer is 4.5%, so if you think 614 is the value not including the buffer, and take the 7% value from above (80.6kWh), that would be:

1.07*0.955 = 1.02. 2% more energy. So that doesn't align either.

If you somehow assume they will have 82.1kWh (I have no idea how this could happen with what we know unless somehow they open up the bottom end):

82.1/75.3 = 1.09.

So if you take 1.09*0.955 = 1.041, that's 4.1% which is kind of close.

But I think starting to assume buffer is not included is too complicated to explain the numbers.

I guess we will see. Seems to me that if there's efficiency improvement (or even if the efficiency is the same), then the 614km value if it doesn't remove the buffer would require some sort of capacity lock.

And of course there is the mystery of the 82.1kWh number. No idea why they give that as the FPWN value since it appears unachievable - unless there is capacity at the bottom or they can push the voltage higher.

 

[FredMt]

And why 614 WLTP couldn't simply be the WLTP value of the 77.8kWh LR pack, in consistency of what is currently displayed on the US site in EPA.
And so take into account 82kWh pack, like in CoC would be to come on web site US and EU.

A value of 568 km EPA with a ratio of 1.08 (*) gives ~ 613.5 km WLTP.
(*) ratio EPA/WLTP for model3 LR 2020 of insideev :

Here Is What A Comparison Of EPA/WLTP Range Ratings Reveal

The EPA and WLTP range ratings were introduced to help consumers understand an expected average real world range, but there is a lot of confusion instead.

insideevs.com

 

[eivissa]

Software locked 79' Panasonic E3D/E3CD with 10.000km charged to 100% (charge completed).
Less Nominal Full Pack -> Less Usable Remaining!
Source: User "sinnlos" @ TFF Forum

 

[thinger]

So LR battery is soft locked?

 

[eivissa]

E3LD Long Range just delivered showing 363km @ 62% SoC -> 567km / 352miles @ 100% (calculated)
Source: Luis_B @ TFF Forum

The car shows the range of an unrestriced 79' Panasonic, like it has been in the states since Q4/2020!

 

[FredMt]

It looks like an E3CD. It would be interesting to know the reference of the pack. In any case under these conditions, it would be consistent with 614wltp.

 

[eivissa]

I have no doubt that this is a 82kWh pack confirmed by E3LD in the COC.

It actually makes sense, that the cars now show 567km of range to be honest.

When the E3LD 2021 Performance 82kWh was released in 2020 we still saw the 499km limit of the 2019/2020 Performance in the car. With SW 2021.4.3 this range was corrected upwards to 508km as expected by us here in the thread.

Now we see the same game again with the E3LD 2021 Long Range 82kWh. It shows the "old" range that is still advertised and sold by Tesla US. So as long as we dont see the EPA results and an update of the increased range on the Tesla website, we wont see the update that increases the rated range.

I am very certain behind the 567km is an unlocked 82kWh pack and only the indicated rated range will be adjusted in the future.

 

[thinger]

So on car side when battery is full Performance range is 509km and LR 567km?

 

[eivissa]

So on car side when battery is full Performance range is 509km and LR 567km?

Yes, that is correct.

 

[AAKEE]

Yes, that is correct.

Mine M3P seem to stop at 508km, seen this from some 80.6 kwh or so to 81.4.
I have seen another swedish guy say he ses 509km but Im not sure if it is true or bullshit. As it looks in mine, It wont show more than 508km ?

 

[eivissa]

Mine M3P seem to stop at 508km, seen this from some 80.6 kwh or so to 81.4.
I have seen another swedish guy say he ses 509km but Im not sure if it is true or bullshit. As it looks in mine, It wont show more than 508km ?

The Value is 508,68km so I guess there is a rounding error wandering around somewhere

 

[AAKEE]

The Value is 508,68km so I guess there is a rounding error wandering around somewhere

Yes, my iphone SMT-app peviously showed just 508.68 but after latest update it seem to only show whole km, rounded to 508 for me. ( cell voltage down to thousands now )

[Edit]just checked, 508.67 is the highest I saw. Probably rounding as well, otherwise I have to start worry about the battery

 

[GeorgeSymonds]

I don't know if this helps, according to Tesla Info (and they identified things like the heat pump, heated steering wheel and pedestrian warning sound in inventory before the cars acually arrived), the manufacturing codes for the 3 different batteries are these,

BT37 - 75kwh panasonc
BT38 - 75kwh LG
BT42 - 82kwh panasonc (irrespective of whether fitted to the LR or P)

Tesla option codes

Tesla option codes and what they mean

tesla-info.com

When you search inventory, globally, the M3P went from BT37 to BT42 with the 2021 model year change
The LR had some 2021 model year US production using the BT38 but now only China made LR have the BT38 (ie UK)
The LR in Fremont production uses the BT42 battery

Its entirely possible that two 2021 model year LR cars built in Fremont have different battery codes and different batteries based on when exactly they were built, and comparing more recent LR cars built in China and Fremont will definitely differ.