Medicare for all - fixing US healthcare

[reddy]

Nope. I don’t.
How many people are booking flights to Costa Roca for major surgeries based on the skill of their doctors and the low/free cost of their healthcare?

Holy cow! I hope you don't live in a border state, or else you would be aware of an ENORMOUS number of people who are 'medical tourists' who go EXACTLY for the low cost of healthcare. For MAJOR SURGERIES.

Look at the listings for Dentists along the border! Every other citizen of Tijuana, Juarez, and Reynosa seems to be a dentist!

People regularly fly to Cancun for orthopedic surgery. Done by Mayo Clinic physicians at a fraction of the cost.

The Rise of Medical Tourism and What It Means for Healthcare

Orthopedic surgery in Cancun, Mexico

Orthopedic surgery in Costa Rica

Cardiac Surgery in India

Were you serious ?

 

[glide]

Holy cow! I hope you don't live in a border state, or else you would be aware of an ENORMOUS number of people who are 'medical tourists' who go EXACTLY for the low cost of healthcare. For MAJOR SURGERIES.

Look at the listings for Dentists along the border! Every other citizen of Tijuana, Juarez, and Reynosa seems to be a dentist!

People regularly fly to Cancun for orthopedic surgery. Done by Mayo Clinic physicians at a fraction of the cost.

The Rise of Medical Tourism and What It Means for Healthcare

Orthopedic surgery in Cancun, Mexico

Orthopedic surgery in Costa Rica

Cardiac Surgery in India

Were you serious ?

So they advertise free, mediocre care to less affluent consumers?
In any other industry that would be considered predatory.

No one on this forum is flying to Costa Rica for any medical or dental procedures. I guarantee it.

 

[reddy]

So they advertise free, mediocre care to less affluent consumers?
In any other industry that would be considered predatory.

No one on this forum is flying to Costa Rica for any medical or dental procedures. I guarantee it.

I was hoping that you were just kidding. Seriously, you're clueless on this. Medical tourism is alive, well, and expanding yearly.

Here we are in the best country on the planet, with the potential to have the best medical care on Earth, and Bloomberg Reports that we are 50th ??? The only thing we are #1 on in healthcare is cost.

Once you get past the delusion that the USA has the best healthcare, you should be disgusted that we pay double for worse care.

I know that I am. In America we should have the best. We are paying big time for it, and not getting it.

 

[reddy]

So they advertise free, mediocre care to less affluent consumers?
In any other industry that would be considered predatory.

No one on this forum is flying to Costa Rica for any medical or dental procedures. I guarantee it.

OK, lets put up money on that guarantee. $100 ?? $1000 ??

Medical Tourism Costa Rica statistics from the Costa Rican Health Chamber, PROMED: In 2016 Costa Rica welcomed some 70,000 medical tourists — up from 25,000 in 2008, 30,000 in 2009, 36,000 in 2010 and 48,000 in 2011. Spending by medical tourists in 2016 amounted to $485 million.

Costa Rica Medical Tourism Industry - The Howler Magazine

 

[SDRick]

Many people in Southern California go to Tijuana for various lower-cost medical and dental procedures. I don't believe this is particularly germane to the discussion. Healthcare is less in Central and South America but so is labor, real estate, rent, regulation and litigation etc.

The real question is do other countries provide better healthcare for their lower and middle classes on a per capita\GNP basis and if so, how do they do it?

 

[Uncle Paul]

Most medical tourist facilities specialize in cash operations. They do plastic surgery, deltal implants, hair implants, and other elective work for the most part. Visited a place in Costa Rica where they did plastic surgery. It was less expensive to fly there, get the procedures and do your rehabilitation at a nearby health spa than go to a US plastic surgeon. The rehab place was staffed by trained workers to change dressings, check for infections, offer encouragement and provide healthy meals. Was a bit scruffy, but clean enough and people seemed caring.

One issue is they rarely are a full service hospital. If something goes sideways you will need to be transported to a local trauma center. You might not make the trip and complications are not covered by the original fee you were quoted.

Some of the foreign clinics offer hope to people unable to get relief in the US. They provide proceedures unproven to work, but claim antidotal examples of previous happy patients. Offer herbal cures and coffee enemas. Some will make the trip and endure the treatments as it its their last hope. Like everwhere, some Dr.s are more ethical than others.

As most things in life, options must be carefully evaluated. Some are more frugal or have higher risk tolerances than others.

 

[reddy]

Many people in Southern California go to Tijuana for various lower-cost medical and dental procedures. I don't believe this is particularly germane to the discussion. Healthcare is less in Central and South America but so is labor, real estate, rent, regulation and litigation etc.

The real question is do other countries provide better healthcare for their lower and middle classes on a per capita\GNP basis and if so, how do they do it?

America spends, as a percentage of GNP far more than any other country.

The difference is stunning, and we are getting crappy care for this price. We have states like Texas who have 30‰ uninsured, so we are paying this crazy high price to cover only a fraction of our citizens.

Folks, this is insane.

 

[S'toon]

Nope. I don’t.
How many people are booking flights to Costa Roca for major surgeries based on the skill of their doctors and the low/free cost of their healthcare?

Ah, you mean "best for those who are rich enough to be able to afford a $100K bill and just shrug it off."

Oh, and by the way, yes, there's medical tourism to Costa Rica.

<snip>
Costa Rica’s private hospitals and clinics offer high-quality medical care at a tiny fraction of its U.S. equivalent cost. In fact, due to Costa Rica’s beautiful surroundings, medical reputation and very lost costs, the country is rapidly becoming a prime destination for medical tourism.

<snip>
Health Care

Healthcare in Costa Rica - International Living Countries

 

[reddy]

So they advertise free, mediocre care to less affluent consumers?
In any other industry that would be considered predatory.

No one on this forum is flying to Costa Rica for any medical or dental procedures. I guarantee it.

So your response to my challenge is to simply put a disagree flag on my post?

How can you disagree with facts?

You can have your own opinion, but not your own facts.

 

[israndy]

His opinion was that he doesn't like your facts.

 

[glide]

So your response to my challenge is to simply put a disagree flag on my post?

How can you disagree with facts?

You can have your own opinion, but not your own facts.

Provide an example of a wealthy person from the US flying to Costa Rica for a medical procedure. You cannot.

 

[reddy]

Provide an example of a wealthy person from the US flying to Costa Rica for a medical procedure. You cannot.

OK, so you want a HIPAA violation , plus tag the person as being wealthy ?

On top of sticking your head in the sand, you are asking for us to commit a crime too?

Good luck with that.

Why this Texas doctor says Costa Rica's health care system beats the US

My point is :

1) Care in the USA , for a lot of reasons, is extraordinarily expensive.
2) It doesn't HAVE to be that way.
3) Many countries, no ALL countries, do a high quality job with less expense.
4) Americans can, and DO, take advantage of this and seek care abroad. Employers and insurance companies will cover these expenses, and often refer patients there if they want.
5) The USA is no longer able to claim superior healthcare, even for those that can afford it.

and

6) Insurance costs only mirror what actual costs are. If you want lower insurance costs, you must reduce the cost of healthcare itself.

 

[israndy]

Provide an example of a wealthy person from the US flying to Costa Rica for a medical procedure.

You are admitting that the US health care system is ONLY for the wealthy, the other 99% of us cannot afford it. And we cannot afford NOT to have healthcare. Time for reform.

 

[Leeclanual]

You are admitting that the US health care system is ONLY for the wealthy, the other 99% of us cannot afford it. And we cannot afford NOT to have healthcare. Time for reform.

Hmmm. You state in your post above that you can’t afford health care (part of the 99%)... yet you still made the decision to go out and get a Tesla. Time to reform your priorities.

 

[israndy]

Troll

The Tesla is an incredibly economical vehicle. I have spent basically nothing on the car in two years of ownership. Solar fuel and public free chargers. Finally coming up on tires, over its life I will well make up for the initial upfront cost, this could easily be the last car I need to buy this lifetime.

 

[Leeclanual]

Troll

The Tesla is an incredibly economical vehicle. I have spent basically nothing on the car in two years of ownership. Solar fuel and public free chargers. Finally coming up on tires, over its life I will well make up for the initial upfront cost, this could easily be the last car I need to buy this lifetime.

Yep... 52K for a midsize M3 is a real budget vehicle. I also see the other vehicles/RVs/motorcycles/cabin you like to collect In your signature block... looks like your priorities are really in order. If you could only get free healthcare... that way you could buy more toys... sorry, economical vehicles... the world would be a much better place.

Give me a break... for someone crying about being unable to afford healthcare you seem to be doing better than the average Joe.

 

[reddy]

Yep... 52K for a midsize M3 is a real budget vehicle. I also see the other vehicles/RVs/motorcycles/cabin you like to collect In your signature block... looks like your priorities are really in order. If you could only get free healthcare... that way you could buy more toys... sorry, economical vehicles... the world would be a much better place.

Give me a break... for someone crying about being unable to afford healthcare you seem to be doing better than the average Joe.

Lee, you ought to be more concerned about the cost. I can easily afford healthcare for my family, and I'm fortunate in that regard. BUT, I have a business with 230 employees. And the cost of healthcare is slaughtering us, just like every business in the USA. If GM didn't have to spend $4.5 billion on healthcare costs, they could relocate factories to the USA.

Amazon, Berkshire Hathaway, and JPMorgan Chase are some of the wealthiest companies on the planet. And they are banding together to find real solutions for the problem.

This is a corrosive, hidden tax on all of us, our employers, and our businesses.

If we don't fix the problem, it will increasingly degrade our competitiveness in the world marketplace. It ALREADY is lowering our standard of living.

Time to wake up, gents. Being rich doesn't make you immune to this virus.

 

[Leeclanual]

I’m concerned about the cost to the government, companies, and Americans... read my earlier post. I said let’s allow the current administration time to unscrew all the various ACA tentacles that are messing up our current medical system... and that Medicare for all is not the answer.

 

[mswlogo]

It’s encouraging seeing the result of the poll.

Health care shouldn’t be implemented as part of my work compensation. Why should the lady in my companies HR be responsible for my families healthcare (what I pay and who I can go to).

What people don’t realize is healthcare has got to the point that there will have to be rules. There are treatments that might give someone 6 months more of poor quality of life that might cost a million dollars. From a societies point of view we can’t afford to do that. Technology and drugs will keep moving forward at high prices.

But right now due to unfairness some treatment that could add 30 years of qualify life for say $1000 some people don’t get because they have nothing. That’s not right.

Wealthier people can buy more insurance or pay out of pocket if they want million dollar treatments for 6 months. But we need some sort of government single payer system that will have rules based on cost and common sense.

Easiest place to start is Medicare for everyone. It will make businesses more competitive to take this burden off of them. it will also make people more fluid and go where they are most needed with no worry about insurance.

We also need to fix how we handle mental illness. It is related. They don’t get treated because they don’t have jobs. They end up in jail or on a shooting rampage.

 

[mswlogo]

Lee, you ought to be more concerned about the cost. I can easily afford healthcare for my family, and I'm fortunate in that regard. BUT, I have a business with 230 employees. And the cost of healthcare is slaughtering us, just like every business in the USA. If GM didn't have to spend $4.5 billion on healthcare costs, they could relocate factories to the USA.

Amazon, Berkshire Hathaway, and JPMorgan Chase are some of the wealthiest companies on the planet. And they are banding together to find real solutions for the problem.

This is a corrosive, hidden tax on all of us, our employers, and our businesses.

If we don't fix the problem, it will increasingly degrade our competitiveness in the world marketplace. It ALREADY is lowering our standard of living.

Time to wake up, gents. Being rich doesn't make you immune to this virus.

Exactly. I see it hurting my small company as well. That and the relationship with China.

Obama care was a weak compromise and they have more or less destroyed even that. And it’s the party that thinks they support business that is dismantling it, piece by piece and they are succeeding.