Medicare for all - fixing US healthcare

[brkaus]

One issue is they rarely are a full service hospital. If something goes sideways you will need to be transported to a local trauma center. You might not make the trip and complications are not covered by the original fee you were quoted.

What does the legal system look like there? What is the recourse if the patient doesn't survive the procedure or has some adverse outcome?

 

[Leeclanual]

It’s encouraging seeing the result of the poll.

Let me get this straight... your encouraged by a poll of 37 people? There are thousands of TMC members... you ever wonder why they did not participate in this specific poll? More participation in the poll that asks “should I tint my M3 windows?”

 

[thx1139]

I’m concerned about the cost to the government, companies, and Americans... read my earlier post. I said let’s allow the current administration time to unscrew all the various ACA tentacles that are messing up our current medical system... and that Medicare for all is not the answer.

Below is a chart that shows the Mercatus (conservative thing tank) analysis of Medicare 4 All. The blue line is the cost for everything as we continue with current system. Under the blue if we implemented the Medicare 4 All system as proposed by Sanders. Everyone covered, everyone 100%. This is the study you see that conservative pundits always use to say Medicare 4 all will cost $32-$35 trillion depending on who says it. They always leave out that even the conservative think tank that did this study says existing system which doesnt cover everyone and has huge coverage gaps for uninsured costs MORE

 

[mswlogo]

Let me get this straight... your encouraged by a poll of 37 people? There are thousands of TMC members... you ever wonder why they did not participate in this specific poll? More participation in the poll that asks “should I tint my M3 windows?”

Hell ya, especially when 31 out of 37 feel we have to do at least Obama care level coverage.

Even if there was a 1000 votes, we have a fairly narrow demographic here on TMC, so I highly doubt it will "flip" with better stats.

But you failed to mention the poll is heavily biased. With no option like leaving the system as is, vouchers, pay for what insurance you can afford and etc. Even with a broader poll I think the results would lean the same. After all most here believe in Global Warming being a man made problem we need to address.

 

[thx1139]

Exactly. I see it hurting my small company as well. That and the relationship with China.

Obama care was a weak compromise and they have more or less destroyed even that. And it’s the party that thinks they support business that is dismantling it, piece by piece and they are succeeding.

That party doesnt want people to have the ability to consciously change jobs without thinking about HC. Because people changing upward pressure on wages. That party doesnt want people to retire. Because people retiring puts upward pressure on wages.

 

[mswlogo]

Below is a chart that shows the Mercatus (conservative thing tank) analysis of Medicare 4 All. The blue line is the cost for everything as we continue with current system. Under the blue if we implemented the Medicare 4 All system as proposed by Sanders. Everyone covered, everyone 100%. This is the study you see that conservative pundits always use to say Medicare 4 all will cost $32-$35 trillion depending on who says it. They always leave out that even the conservative think tank that did this study says existing system which doesnt cover everyone and has huge coverage gaps for uninsured costs MORE

I'm pretty good with charts. But I can't understand what that chart is trying to tell me. It looks really cool though.

 

[Watts_Up]

That party doesnt want people to have the ability to consciously change jobs without thinking about HC. Because people changing upward pressure on wages. That party doesnt want people to retire. Because people retiring puts upward pressure on wages.

Good point about loosing HC when you cannot get a stable job because of the type of economy we have,
where companies are constantly cutting jobs or merging.

When visiting a Doctor, the first question is always "What kind of insurance do you have..." this should come last instead.

Below is a chart that shows the Mercatus (conservative thing tank) analysis of Medicare 4 All. The blue line is the cost for everything as we continue with current system. Under the blue if we implemented the Medicare 4 All system as proposed by Sanders. Everyone covered, everyone 100%. This is the study you see that conservative pundits always use to say Medicare 4 all will cost $32-$35 trillion depending on who says it. They always leave out that even the conservative think tank that did this study says existing system which doesnt cover everyone and has huge coverage gaps for uninsured costs MORE

Everyone want a better HC, but increasing taxes for people who just get enough to survive is not what people want to hear and will not work.

 

[thx1139]

I'm pretty good with charts. But I can't understand what that chart is trying to tell me. It looks really cool though.

Blue to the right is the current trajectory of spending with the way we pay for HC not changing. Green is the Medicare 4 All cost. Key is that green is lower then blue aka costs less. Costs less yet covers everyone and is at 100%.

 

[RDoc]

I went with Obamacare because I'm pretty sure single payer isn't going to happen anytime soon but enhancements to Obamacare could help a lot of people in the near term. OTOH, long term, something like single payer makes a lot of sense.

 

[reddy]

I’m concerned about the cost to the government, companies, and Americans... read my earlier post. I said let’s allow the current administration time to unscrew all the various ACA tentacles that are messing up our current medical system... and that Medicare for all is not the answer.

Lee, the current administration hasn't done diddly squat on healthcare, other than make it worse.

Their lack of a plan is quite appalling, even more so for an industry that consumes 17% of our GDP.

That's malpractice, in my book. I don't see them being any less dysfunctional next term.

 

[Leeclanual]

Lee, the current administration hasn't done diddly squat on healthcare, other than make it worse.

Their lack of a plan is quite appalling, even more so for an industry that consumes 17% of our GDP.

That's malpractice, in my book. I don't see them being any less dysfunctional next term.

what has Nancy Pelosi done for you lately? Failed Impeachment? Failed Russian Witch-hunt? What meaningful and realistic fix to the ACA has she put forth to the house? Zip

 

[Leeclanual]

Hell ya, especially when 31 out of 37 feel we have to do at least Obama care level coverage.

Even if there was a 1000 votes, we have a fairly narrow demographic here on TMC, so I highly doubt it will "flip" with better stats.

But you failed to mention the poll is heavily biased. With no option like leaving the system as is, vouchers, pay for what insurance you can afford and etc. Even with a broader poll I think the results would lean the same. After all most here believe in Global Warming being a man made problem we need to address.

115,000+ TMC members... poll that includes 37 of the membership... margin of error 99%.

 

[thx1139]

what has Nancy Pelosi done for you lately? Failed Impeachment? Failed Russian Witch-hunt? What meaningful and realistic fix to the ACA has she put forth to the house? Zip

You mean like HR986 and HR987 which protect people with pre-existing conditions and lower prescription drug costs which like 100s more have passed the house and sitting in McConnell's cemetary?

Since you want stuff like that how about sharing the amazing and easy healthcare plan Trump bragged about in 2015 that would drastically reduce costs and cover everyone. Hell any GOP healthcare plan that covers just a few more people with comprehensive insurance.

 

[Leeclanual]

You mean like HR986 and HR987 which protect people with pre-existing conditions and lower prescription drug costs which like 100s more have passed the house and sitting in McConnell's cemetary?

Since you want stuff like that how about sharing the amazing and easy healthcare plan Trump bragged about in 2015 that would drastically reduce costs and cover everyone. Hell any GOP healthcare plan that covers just a few more people with comprehensive insurance.

I said “meaningful and realistic”... HR986/7 were passed by a partisan vote without any bipartisan changes allowed to the bill... they were never intended to see the light of day in the Senate... just for the news channels and commercial adds.

The Tax Cuts and Jobs act signed by Trump solidified protections for Pre-Existing Conditions.

 

[thx1139]

I said “meaningful and realistic”... HR986/7 were passed by a partisan vote without any bipartisan changes allowed to the bill... they were never intended to see the light of day in the Senate... just for the news channels and commercial adds.

The Tax Cuts and Jobs act signed by Trump solidified protections for Pre-Existing Conditions.

Name 1.

 

[mswlogo]

115,000+ TMC members... poll that includes 37 of the membership... margin of error 99%.

You obviously never took a statistics, or failed it.

When 33 out of sample of 40 say the same thing it doesn't take a very large sample to know where it's going.

Also 115,000 members means absolutely nothing. How many of those are active? How many are Duplicate accounts? How many would participate? 115,000 members are a "sample" of the general population too.

The only thing known is 40 people participated and 83% said we need Universal or at least Obama Care. I found that encouraging.
And like I said it's more likely the demographic of all of TMC and the biased poll that gave the result than the sample size.
But my guess is the TMC demographic is heavily biased towards well educated people.

 

[eevee-fan]

Easiest place to start is Medicare for everyone. It will make businesses more competitive to take this burden off of them. it will also make people more fluid and go where they are most needed with no worry about insurance.

Walmart has already shown that Medicaid for All works pretty well for them, so I don't see why businesses are not out there lobbying for Medicare for All. It removes the responsibility of providing health plans, something that was not offered until labor shortage in the 30's.

... found this article that gives a history of benefits.
The History of Benefits | workplaceconsultants.net

 

[eevee-fan]

... oh, and Walmart has also tested Universal Basic Income for their employees in the form of food stamp.

 

[Leeclanual]

You obviously never took a statistics, or failed it.

When 33 out of sample of 40 say the same thing it doesn't take a very large sample to know where it's going.

Also 115,000 members means absolutely nothing. How many of those are active? How many are Duplicate accounts? How many would participate? 115,000 members are a "sample" of the general population too.

The only thing known is 40 people participated and 83% said we need Universal or at least Obama Care. I found that encouraging.
And like I said it's more likely the demographic of all of TMC and the biased poll that gave the result than the sample size.
But my guess is the TMC demographic is heavily biased towards well educated people.

I feel sorry for your employees.

 

[reddy]

what has Nancy Pelosi done for you lately? Failed Impeachment? Failed Russian Witch-hunt? What meaningful and realistic fix to the ACA has she put forth to the house? Zip

Ahh, The Tu quoque Fallacy, at work !

The Tu quoque Fallacy
The tu quoque fallacy (Latin for "you also") is an invalid attempt to discredit an opponent by answering criticism with criticism -- but never actually presenting a counterargument to the original disputed claim.

In the example below, Lola makes a claim. Instead of presenting evidence against Lola's claim, John levels a claim against Lola. This attack doesn't actually help John succeed in proving Lola wrong, since he doesn't address her original claim in any capacity.


Let's return to healthcare, and the current administrations utter failure to propose ANYTHING.

ANYTHING at all.