Might be returning AWD 3 (advice request)

[Watts_Up]

I spoke to him late last night and got a little more information. He left his house in NY with a 90% charge (he didn't charge right before he left). He only stopped at the Carlisle, PA and Morgantown, WV superchargers. He said he was the slowest car on the road and the car told him to drive 70 to make his destination. He made it to the Carlisle, PA SC with 6 miles of range, which really scared him. He also didn't like driving 71mph when everybody was flying past him doing 80-85. Clearly, he choose SC stops poorly. I planned on telling him where to stop but he left two days earlier than expected.

His main concern was the efficiency. He said he would charge up to 285 at a SC, drive 150 miles and only have 40 miles of range left at 71mph, for a real world range of 180-200 miles in mild temps.



He told me the car was reading 40psi for all four tires and I think they should be at least 42, maybe higher. I had him give me his overall wh/mi and it was only 325, much better than the 344 he mentioned earlier, but I still feel like it should be lower at 71mph of all highway driving.

The Tesla manager that was supposed to call him back to go over his options never called. I'm sure they won't do it, but I told him to ask for an extension on the 7 day return period (in writing) so he could drive the car to me in DC on Monday (when I get back in the US) so we can take it in for service and have them check the alignment, tire pressure and do a battery diagnostic (just to be on the safe side). This will also give him the opportunity to visit more superchargers on a planned route so he can drive at faster speeds.

I keep going back and forth about him returning it. I hate having a Tesla get returned and I feel like if stops at more SCs, he'd be okay with it. I just don't know if he would be able to do it in the winter even with more super charger visits (at the speeds he wants to drive (around 80).

What car he was using previously?
Ask how much it costs in eletrons compare to gas?

 

[preilly44]

What car he was using previously?
Ask how much it costs in eletrons compare to gas?

He was driving some big SUV...I'm not sure what it was but he said it got in the low 20mpg range at highway speeds. Unfortunately, he rents a condo in WV so all his charging there is done via 120v outlet in the garage or the supercharger which is a couple blocks away. The super charger there is usually empty so he won't be preventing people from charging but it will be similar priced to gas if he frequently uses the supercharger (which I recommended against).

 

[Watts_Up]

He was driving some big SUV...I'm not sure what it was but he said it got in the low 20mpg range at highway speeds. Unfortunately, he rents a condo in WV so all his charging there is done via 120v outlet in the garage or the supercharger which is a couple blocks away.
The super charger there is usually empty so he won't be preventing people from charging but it
will be similar priced to gas if he frequently uses the supercharger
(which I recommended against).

Really?

Doing some very simple math I found the following:

1) A big SUV is about 20 miles / gallon
Gas is about $3.00 / gallon

- So SUV costs $30 for 200 miles


2) Model 3 has a 75 kW battery and provides about 200 to 300 miles (winter versus summer)

Supercharger is about $0.20 / kWh

- sot its cost $0.20 x 75 kW = $15 for 200 to 300 miles


3) So in winter to drive 1,000 miles it would cost ($15 x 1,000 / 200 ) = $75 of electricity

and in summer to drive 1,000 miles it would cost ($15 x 1,000 / 300 ) = $50 of electricity

With the SUV, to drive 1,000 miles it would cost ($30 x 1,000 / 200) = $150 of gas

- so there is at least a ratio of 2 to 3 between gas and electricity, and even more if you can charge at home using Time-of-Use rate.

 

[ngogas]

Problem is your recommended to a father in law. Hopefully you don’t get crap from him and your wife. Lol.

All seriousness, he has range anxiety.

 

[preilly44]

Really?

Doing some very simple math I found the following:

1) A big SUV is about 20 miles / gallon
Gas is about $3.00 / gallon

- So SUV costs $30 for 200 miles


2) Model 3 has a 75 kW battery and provides about 200 to 300 miles (winter versus summer)

Supercharger is about $0.20 / kWh

- sot its cost $0.20 x 75 kW = $15 for 200 to 300 miles


3) So in winter to drive 1,000 miles it would cost ($15 x 1,000 / 200 ) = $75 of electricity

and in summer to drive 1,000 miles it would cost ($15 x 1,000 / 300 ) = $50 of electricity

With the SUV, to drive 1,000 miles it would cost ($30 x 1,000 / 200) = $150 of gas

- so there is at least a ratio of 2 to 3 between gas and electricity, and even more if you can charge at home using Time-of-Use rate.

Unfortunately, your very simple math assumes the car goes 300 miles in the summer and 200 in the winter. He was getting 200 miles driving 71mph when it was in the upper 40s, lower 50s. You are quoting ideal range, not actual range. Not to mention gas in the area is close to $2.40 for regular (currently) while superchargers are .25-.28/kw.

I'm a Tesla fanboy and love everything Tesla, but it doesn't work out the way you sated.

 

[Watts_Up]

Unfortunately, your very simple math assumes the car goes 300 miles in the summer and 200 in the winter. He was getting 200 miles driving 71mph when it was in the upper 40s, lower 50s. You are quoting ideal range, not actual range. Not to mention gas in the area is close to $2.40 for regular (currently) while superchargers are .25-.28/kw.

I'm a Tesla fanboy and love everything Tesla, but it doesn't work out the way you sated.

This pic express a little bit my fossil RIP feeling....

 

[preilly44]

I just heard that he decided to keep the car. Tesla is going to do an alignment and adjust the tire pressure on Monday and we are going to try to find him 18" aeros at the same time.

He said he's willing to sit at SC's longer if he can drive faster (with the flow of traffic doing 80-85). I just hope he can make it in the winter with some heat. I think he should be able to.

Thanks to everybody who took their time out to offer their thoughts and ideas!

 

[ngogas]

If he lived near I would be willing to swap my 18 for his 19.

 

[Big Earl]

I just heard that he decided to keep the car. Tesla is going to do an alignment and adjust the tire pressure on Monday and we are going to try to find him 18" aeros at the same time.

He said he's willing to sit at SC's longer if he can drive faster (with the flow of traffic doing 80-85). I just hope he can make it in the winter with some heat. I think he should be able to.

Thanks to everybody who took their time out to offer their thoughts and ideas!

I routinely make winter trips through the Mid-West and New England at ~80 MPH. It gets pretty energy-hungry, but I haven't run into any problems that could be solved with an additional stop or a few extra minutes.

 

[mazers]

Good news @preilly44. He's going to love the car and you won't hear any crap from him. Range anxiety is certainly a thing for the first few trips, then he will figure out his favorite super chargers and how long to be at each.

 

[mtndrew1]

He was driving some big SUV...I'm not sure what it was but he said it got in the low 20mpg range at highway speeds. Unfortunately, he rents a condo in WV so all his charging there is done via 120v outlet in the garage or the supercharger which is a couple blocks away. The super charger there is usually empty so he won't be preventing people from charging but it will be similar priced to gas if he frequently uses the supercharger (which I recommended against).

You may want to investigate having him swap out the 120V 15A outlet for a 120V 20A outlet.

This is often a very inexpensive thing to do yet it increases the actual charging rate by nearly 50% with the NEMA 5-20 Tesla UMC pigtail. It’s a cheap way to dramatically improve the charging experience on 120V.

 

[Ol'Blue]

He doesn’t have to sit longer, just has to make an extra stop.

The other stops can even be shorter as a result! Also resulting in more efficient charges.

Glad to hear he is keeping it, he will enjoy.

Don’t be afraid to try the trip with the 19s again, but with the right pressure and alignment.

 

[Ol'Blue]

You may want to investigate having him swap out the 120V 15A outlet for a 120V 20A outlet.

This is often a very inexpensive thing to do yet it increases the actual charging rate by nearly 50% with the NEMA 5-20 Tesla UMC pigtail. It’s a cheap way to dramatically improve the charging experience on 120V.

I’ve grabbed a few Tesla adaptors to the UMC. They are fairly affordable. I’ve definitely considered going the 20amp route before. I would definitely agree with mtndrew1 that it could make all the difference in the world for him with minor investment.

 

[mswlogo]

I spoke to him late last night and got a little more information. He left his house in NY with a 90% charge (he didn't charge right before he left). He only stopped at the Carlisle, PA and Morgantown, WV superchargers. He said he was the slowest car on the road and the car told him to drive 70 to make his destination. He made it to the Carlisle, PA SC with 6 miles of range, which really scared him. He also didn't like driving 71mph when everybody was flying past him doing 80-85. Clearly, he choose SC stops poorly. I planned on telling him where to stop but he left two days earlier than expected.

His main concern was the efficiency. He said he would charge up to 285 at a SC, drive 150 miles and only have 40 miles of range left at 71mph, for a real world range of 180-200 miles in mild temps.



He told me the car was reading 40psi for all four tires and I think they should be at least 42, maybe higher. I had him give me his overall wh/mi and it was only 325, much better than the 344 he mentioned earlier, but I still feel like it should be lower at 71mph of all highway driving.

The Tesla manager that was supposed to call him back to go over his options never called. I'm sure they won't do it, but I told him to ask for an extension on the 7 day return period (in writing) so he could drive the car to me in DC on Monday (when I get back in the US) so we can take it in for service and have them check the alignment, tire pressure and do a battery diagnostic (just to be on the safe side). This will also give him the opportunity to visit more superchargers on a planned route so he can drive at faster speeds.

I keep going back and forth about him returning it. I hate having a Tesla get returned and I feel like if stops at more SCs, he'd be okay with it. I just don't know if he would be able to do it in the winter even with more super charger visits (at the speeds he wants to drive (around 80).

If he was at 40 psi "warmed up" in those temps. That's really pretty low (he may have been 38 psi cold). Warmed up in those temps it should read around 44-45 psi. But always fill based on cold pressure. And put at least 42 psi cold.

Pressure alone can make a big difference. He might have been as much as 4 lbs down. That's probably 20+ miles range right there (give or take). If he wants to drive 80-85 mph, he should. Don't change driving habits for the car.

The trip planner cuts it tight on SOC % left at a SC, and does not factor in heat. Even a little bit of heat can cost ya. 6 miles left is way to close and he should have been concerned. I don't think trip planner assumes driving 80-85mph either and that will cost another 5-10%

I think one more 15 minute stop in those temps would allow him to comfortably do 80-85 mph. And proper tire pressure.
Since he lives in NY, I think he should keep the AWD. And in Winter maybe increase that to 40 minute extra Stop.

If he wants more margin, swap out the wheels. Do it now while they are still "new-ish". He can probably sell them quick for $2000-ish and pickup Aero's for $1200-ish (make sure they include TPMS).

BTW I have 18" Xi3 Snows on in Winter and their efficiency is excellent. As good, if not better than the OEM Primacy 18" tires. And quieter to boot. I just put the noisy Primacy's back on. Word has it the 19" OEM's are slightly noisier. He could just add 18" Xi3 Aero's snows and that would cover most of the loss due to cold weather. But not all of it. I think if he ran 42 psi, cold with Xi3 Aero's when it was say 20F out he'd get about the range he got that trip.

 

[mswlogo]

He doesn’t have to sit longer, just has to make an extra stop.

The other stops can even be shorter as a result! Also resulting in more efficient charges.

Glad to hear he is keeping it, he will enjoy.

Don’t be afraid to try the trip with the 19s again, but with the right pressure and alignment.

Good point on more charges over the more "efficient" (miles per second wise) charging range can save time.

You can get a LOT more miles out of two 20 minute charges (over the ideal range) than one 40 minute.

 

[SMAlset]

I just heard that he decided to keep the car. Tesla is going to do an alignment and adjust the tire pressure on Monday and we are going to try to find him 18" aeros at the same time. It's only a few months of cold weather to get through.

He said he's willing to sit at SC's longer if he can drive faster (with the flow of traffic doing 80-85). I just hope he can make it in the winter with some heat. I think he should be able to.

Thanks to everybody who took their time out to offer their thoughts and ideas!

That's an interesting update. I wasn't sure which decision he would end up making. I hope he works through the issues, learns some tips and enjoys the car.

Don't laugh at a SF Bay area owner giving some tips on cold weather but we had some this February (snow on the ranges near here and valleys stay pretty chilly sometimes for days). I took a screen capture of my app on 2/7 where the inside temp of my car was 34F (don't have climate on when parked outside) and I had the snowflake on my app's battery SOC. I have found heating the cabin initially (I set temp to 68F and fan is set to 6 to push out the heat and circulate it quickly) and using the seat heater (start at 3 and turn down, leave on 1) leaves me feeling comfortable while I'm driving around running errands. If I direct the driver's fan control at the steer wheel at some point it will also warm that up pretty quickly. I find the heating/cooling on my car very fast and efficient, much more so than on our Model S.

I did get to experience my doors being unable to open during a few of our colder days. Condensation on the car froze the windows in place. Do let your father-in-law know, if he doesn't already, that frameless windows on cars if you get the door open in freezing temps may not go down as intended; and if you try to close the door with them in this position you will hit the window with the frame of the car. This was the first frameless car I owned and guess I don't recall my husband's MS having this problem prior to this year. Work around for this is to pre-warm the car so that when you go for the door handle it will pop open and the window will do down. Sure being an East coaster you know about silicon spray on the rubber gasket around the windows. For the few days it gets that cold here overkill for me. I also find that it helps when you exit the car for the night to have adjusted the fan vents toward your driver's door so it defrosts sooner the next morning when you want to get in. Hey this year I even got to experience the door handle being a bit frozen in place too. Fortunately had read threads on here from cold weather owners who posted about this stuff so I was aware of it when it happened to me. The SF Bay area just isn't Southern California .

 

[mswlogo]

Really?

Doing some very simple math I found the following:

1) A big SUV is about 20 miles / gallon
Gas is about $3.00 / gallon

- So SUV costs $30 for 200 miles


2) Model 3 has a 75 kW battery and provides about 200 to 300 miles (winter versus summer)

Supercharger is about $0.20 / kWh

- sot its cost $0.20 x 75 kW = $15 for 200 to 300 miles


3) So in winter to drive 1,000 miles it would cost ($15 x 1,000 / 200 ) = $75 of electricity

and in summer to drive 1,000 miles it would cost ($15 x 1,000 / 300 ) = $50 of electricity

With the SUV, to drive 1,000 miles it would cost ($30 x 1,000 / 200) = $150 of gas

- so there is at least a ratio of 2 to 3 between gas and electricity, and even more if you can charge at home using Time-of-Use rate.

Folks should stop comparing gas guzzling SUV's to mid-side EV sedan's.

If you want to do a real cost comparison. Compare it to say a Lexus Hybrid Sedan or something.
Depending on cost of Electricity the Lexus might be the cheapest on fuel.

I'm not biased towards or against a Tesla or EV. But you need to be honest about what you are comparing and not mislead folks.

1,000 miles in a Lexus (ES300 h) cost about $66 (@ the same $3.00 a gallon) and that probably wouldn't change much Winter vs Summer on the Highway.

 

[NathanielHrnblwr]

I bet he will sell that car within a year.

 

[mswlogo]

I bet he will sell that car within a year.

I bet he doesn't. It takes a while to appreciate the positive things.
And maybe some V3 SC come his way.

 

[Leafdriver333]

I bet he will sell that car within a year.

But 9 out of 10 EV driver's stay electric.
I see no better alternative