Mobileye - Most Impressive Self Driving Demo Yet (CES 2019)

[fmonera]

[...] I actually think EyeQ3 (in Supercruise and others) is more capable than anything Tesla ships in cars at this time. Had GM implemented/integrated side monitoring or included more cameras for EyeQ3 (it supports more than one) within its semi-autonomous system there isn’t anything in EAP that Supercruise could not do in my view.

In theory, my Model X is capable of fly too, had it implemented the software routine to move up and down very quickly the falcon wing doors.

Please, don't mix unreleased features with released ones, they are not comparable at all.

If we talk about demos/unreleased features to the public, then I raise the bet. This is the most impressive autopilot demo yet (and it is from 2006). No humans involved at all on driving those cars:

 

[Vitold]

Self driving demos are like car prototypes at a car show.

 

[CarlK]

Yes, driver monitoring is separate from the actual driving part.

That said personally — and I know we disagree — I actually think EyeQ3 (in Supercruise and others) is more capable than anything Tesla ships in cars at this time. Had GM implemented/integrated side monitoring or included more cameras for EyeQ3 (it supports more than one) within its semi-autonomous system there isn’t anything in EAP that Supercruise could not do in my view. And EyeQ3 could do this while noting speed limit signs and so forth.

What's the reason then that GM is not doing this way but instead need to rely on LIDAR generated maps on limited roads? Isn't that more work with less return? I'm not going to blame EyeQ3, which is only providing vision recognition, but GM's ability to add the rest for this. Remember Tesla did everything other than vision for the AP1 which is still better than the supercruise now. Not to mention in the begining it did not even have hand check or eye check, the only thing supercruise could use to brag.

EyeQ4 ups the game even more but not even there will the first manufacturers use all the power and potential of that chip. So it comes down to what the car manufacturers use the chips for and so far MobilEye’s chips are not being used to the max at all, giving of course Tesla an edge in consumer experience which I agree is why many of us who are interested in this space do drive Teslas as we get to experience things that otherwise would still be in the labs (or in the case of MobilEye chips shipping but largely remaining dormant in consumer cars).

That indeed is a pro for Tesla even in my book, even when I do think the technology MobilEye has is in fact superior. I can’t buy it in a usable form in a car yet. The pros and cons in this space are numerous and diverse when it comes to analyzing the players. It is not a simple one is better than the other but a multitude of factors affect the thinking.

The biggest differece between them, aside from that Mobileye is late to the NN game, is Tesla is doing the full solution while Mobileye is only providing a part of it. Of course they could work with customers to tune each's work but there is no comparison to the way at Tesla where you have everyone from HW SW to AI and testing guys working in the same building, for the same boss and can see each other everyday. In Mobileye' case, or for that matter Nvidia or Bosch or Delphi's, how often they could meet with their customers and how soon a request could get a feedback from either way?

Then there is the most critical issue of who is going to be responsible for the machine learning? The chip makers? The car makers? Or they do it together in a slow process? Don't think they could ever catch Tesla that way. No one could catch SpaceX because vertical integration let it to move fast. This is applied to the Tesla FSD which I'd say the writing is on the wall even without thinking how far ahead Tesla already is.

I am skeptical about this, frankly it is hard to see my current Tesla ever getting nags free (it has FSD purchased but of course no interior camera). That would likely require some other kind of driver monitoring or Level 3+ and it is hard to see Tesla reaching a car responsible (even just eyes off) driving mode with the current suite in any reasonable timespan. I would love to be wrong about this of course as being wrong about this certainly would be in my interest as an FSD enabled car owner...

I'd say FSD will not have the nag but could still ask you for confirmation when in certain situations it's not 100% sure of, OK 99.9999% sure of. FSD with (constant) nag is meaningless. Tesla just have to bite the bullet to do it and forget about the legal implication. Everything needs to start somewhere.

 

[Bladerskb]

What's the reason then that GM not doing this way but instead need to rely on LIDAR generated maps for limited roads? Why it wants to do more work with less return? I'm not going to blame EyeQ3, which is only providing vision recognition, on this but GM's ability to add the rest. Remember Tesla did everything other than vision for the AP1 which is still better than the supercruise now. Not to mention in the begining it did not even have hand check or eye check, the only thing supercruise could use to brag.

Supercruise has won every head to head match up vs AP1 and AP2. It is truly stunning. alot of the reviews talked about the wobbling and ping ponging of AP and how SC is like being on a train track. Will post all the reviews sometime when i have free time.

Secondly GM's Ushr maps were not used for direct control. They use the outputs from EyeQ3. Lastly, GM is ditching Ushr in their supercruise 2.0 coming out late this year.

The biggest differece between them, aside from that Mobileye is late to the NN game

Mobileye is the first to use NN in a consumer chip (eyeq3).
They were also a first to ship a NN processor (eyeQ4). And their EyeQ5 that will be avail first half of 2019 is the most efficient NN processor for sdc.

, is Tesla is doing the full solution while Mobileye is only providing a part of it.

That's not true anymore, while Mobileye has previously only provided the perception (in respect to ADAS). For SDC, t hey are now providing the full stack aswell. That includes perception, mapping and driving policy. OEM partners can chose either a full AV Kit or a single node like perception or driving policy, etc. They also provide their own sensor hardware stack (camera, radar & lidar).

Then there is the most critical issue of who is going to be responsible for the machine learning? The chip makers? The car makers? Or they do it together in a slow process? Don't think they could ever catch Tesla that way.This is applied to the Tesla FSD which I'd say the writing is on the wall even without thinking how far ahead Tesla already is.

How about tesla catch mobileye first? The current NN in AP is ridiculously inaccurate in detecting and tracking objects like cars. What the last gen eyeQ3 from 2014 was able to do effortlessly.

Infact Tesla's current NN can't detect road markings, barriers, curbs, concrete barriers, light poles, traffic signs, road signs, pot holes, traffic lights, intersections, stop line, traffic light relevancy, driveable paths, road debris, general objects and a lot more. Nor does it do HD Map harvesting. Yet eyeQ4 does all of this and was released late 2017. Sure the automakers are slow to integrate and their slowness is actually in their waterfall approach and lack of OTA. But that is changing. There are a number of Level 2+ & Level 3 systems coming out this year using EyeQ4.

The point is, mobileye's eyeq4 has far more greater capability, accuracy and efficiency than tesla's current NN. Its not even close and that's with Mobileye's NN being done in 2017 and we are in 2019!!!!!

When you add the advancement eyeQ5 will bring, its not even fair anymore.

I'd say FSD will not have the nag but could still ask you for confirmation when in certain situations it's not 100% sure of, OK 99.9999% sure of. FSD with (constant) nag is meaningless. Tesla just have to bite the bullet and do it and forget about the legal implications. Everything needs to start somewhere.

That's not FSD. FSD is level 5, start to finish, with no driver, as confirmed by Elon would be here late 2017 and early 2018.

 

[CarlK]

OT but just to give Tesla haters a dose of reality. Tesla is ranked by Forbes as 4th most innovative companies in the world. The way it's calculated is using "innovation premium" giving by the market which means everyone. I'm sure recogized as self driving technology leader is a large factor in it. Not surprisingly I don't see Intel/Mobileye or any auto company anywhere on the list.

The ranking does not take into account what one or two shills on an internet forum say.

The World's Most Innovative Companies

 

[Bladerskb]

OT but just to give Tesla haters a dose of reality. Tesla is ranked by Forbes as 4th most innovative companies in the world. The way it's calculated is using "innovation premium" giving by the market which means everyone. I'm sure recogized as self driving technology leader is a large factor in it. Not surprisingly I don't see Intel/Mobileye or any auto company anywhere on the list.

The ranking does not take into account what one or two shills on an internet forum say.

The World's Most Innovative Companies

So you run out of things to say so now you are just making stuff up? That's a new low..

Self Driving Technology | Navigant Research

 

[CarlK]

So you run out of things to say so now you are just making stuff up? That's a new low..

Self Driving Technology | Navigant Research

That link of yours is the new low. Lower than even those staged demos and edited videos you kept showing. Anyone can say anything to profit from it and with no consequence when it's wrong. The Forbes result comes from all investors vote with their checkbook. When it comes to one's own money no one wants to be dishonest to it.

 

[electronblue]

In theory, my Model X is capable of fly too, had it implemented the software routine to move up and down very quickly the falcon wing doors.

Please, don't mix unreleased features with released ones, they are not comparable at all.

If we talk about demos/unreleased features to the public, then I raise the bet. This is the most impressive autopilot demo yet (and it is from 2006). No humans involved at all on driving those cars:

Here’s the thing though: EyeQ3 and EyeQ4 are released. The features are there shipping in a wide range of cars. It is just the cars are not using all of those features.

I understand it is a subtle difference — and I fully acknowledge Tesla buyers pro in getting Tesla’s features into use sooner compared to the traditional automotive implementation cycle (this is why I drive a Tesla) — but when comparing completed technology itself, it is my view MobilEye’s currently shipping and released chips contain technology superior to what Tesla ships in its cars.

If I buy a modern GPU or a graphics card and put it in a PC running MS-DOS, all that capability is still there even though it is not used. That is the MobilEye situation. There is a LOT of capability in those chips underused by OEMs who haven’t put that technology into use very aggressively.

See what Tesla did with EyeQ3 when they put their mind to it compared to other OEMs — and even Tesla did not use the full feature set of the EyeQ3 in the end, nor did even they use with multiple cameras which it supports so even Tesla underused the EyeQ3... and now EyeQ4 is shipping in production cars.

 

[kbM3]

Supercruise has won every head to head match up vs AP1 and AP2. It is truly stunning. alot of the reviews talked about the wobbling and ping ponging of AP and how SC is like being on a train track. Will post all the reviews sometime when i have free time.

Secondly GM's Ushr maps were not used for direct control. They use the outputs from EyeQ3. Lastly, GM is ditching Ushr in their supercruise 2.0 coming out late this year.


Mobileye is the first to use NN in a consumer chip (eyeq3).
They were also a first to ship a NN processor (eyeQ4). And their EyeQ5 that will be avail first half of 2019 is the most efficient NN processor for sdc.


That's not true anymore, while Mobileye has previously only provided the perception (in respect to ADAS). For SDC, t hey are now providing the full stack aswell. That includes perception, mapping and driving policy. OEM partners can chose either a full AV Kit or a single node like perception or driving policy, etc. They also provide their own sensor hardware stack (camera, radar & lidar).



How about tesla catch mobileye first? The current NN in AP is ridiculously inaccurate in detecting and tracking objects like cars. What the last gen eyeQ3 from 2014 was able to do effortlessly.

Infact Tesla's current NN can't detect road markings, barriers, curbs, concrete barriers, light poles, traffic signs, road signs, pot holes, traffic lights, intersections, stop line, traffic light relevancy, driveable paths, road debris, general objects and a lot more. Nor does it do HD Map harvesting. Yet eyeQ4 does all of this and was released late 2017. Sure the automakers are slow to integrate and their slowness is actually in their waterfall approach and lack of OTA. But that is changing. There are a number of Level 2+ & Level 3 systems coming out this year using EyeQ4.

The point is, mobileye's eyeq4 has far more greater capability, accuracy and efficiency than tesla's current NN. Its not even close and that's with Mobileye's NN being done in 2017 and we are in 2019!!!!!

When you add the advancement eyeQ5 will bring, its not even fair anymore.



That's not FSD. FSD is level 5, start to finish, with no driver, as confirmed by Elon would be here late 2017 and early 2018.

I thought Supercruise was incapable of even changing lanes?

Once again, because you are so easily confused over such a basic point, we all agree Mobileye has the best demos. Why do you keep confusing demos with shipping product? You can’t drive a demo.

 

[Vitold]

Supercruise review:
Redirect Notice


Super Cruise’s self-steering system isn’t as smooth as an attentive human driver—I occasionally felt a slight “ping-pong” effect as the car corrected itself back and forth off of the left- and right-hand “borders” of its road lane. It was pronounced enough to be noticeable, but not enough to be annoying.

 

[Bladerskb]

Supercruise review:
Redirect Notice


Super Cruise’s self-steering system isn’t as smooth as an attentive human driver—I occasionally felt a slight “ping-pong” effect as the car corrected itself back and forth off of the left- and right-hand “borders” of its road lane. It was pronounced enough to be noticeable, but not enough to be annoying.

I'm glad you posted that and that @CarlK liked it so the ones i posted must also be accepted...oh wait who am i kidding, calk will just say they are paid off.

Gotta love being a tesla fan, you get to rationalize and use whatever source fits your narrative, and decry any other as big oil shills.

The Battle for Best Semi-Autonomous System: Tesla Autopilot Vs. GM SuperCruise, Head-to-Head

Cadillac Tops Tesla in Consumer Reports' First Ranking of Automated Driving Systems

Cadillac's semi-autonomous system is better than Tesla's or Volvo's

Cadillac Super Cruise Review: I like this more than Tesla Autopilot

We tested out Tesla Autopilot and Cadillac's Super Cruise — here's which one we liked better

Cadillac Super Cruise wins the 2019 Autoblog Technology of the Year Award


I could post more but you get the point. The idea that have been floating around that Tesla is 3 years ahead or 10 years ahead is ludicrous. It has been debunked time and time again and will be more apparent when the cars currently in the soap kitchen using eyeq4 are released. Sure the tier1s and the automakers doing it are slow, but the tech is already there and the current AP NN is only at 10% of the capability of eyeq4, if that..

 

[OPRCE]

Lastly, GM is ditching Ushr in their supercruise 2.0 coming out late this year.

What will be the feature-set of GM's 2019 SuperCruise 2.0?

 

[Vitold]

I'm glad you posted that and that @CarlK liked it so the ones i posted must also be accepted...oh wait who am i kidding, calk will just say they are paid off.

Gotta love being a tesla fan, you get to rationalize and use whatever source fits your narrative, and decry any other as big oil shills.

The Battle for Best Semi-Autonomous System: Tesla Autopilot Vs. GM SuperCruise, Head-to-Head

Cadillac Tops Tesla in Consumer Reports' First Ranking of Automated Driving Systems

Cadillac's semi-autonomous system is better than Tesla's or Volvo's

Cadillac Super Cruise Review: I like this more than Tesla Autopilot

We tested out Tesla Autopilot and Cadillac's Super Cruise — here's which one we liked better

Cadillac Super Cruise wins the 2019 Autoblog Technology of the Year Award


I could post more but you get the point. The idea that have been floating around that Tesla is 3 years ahead or 10 years ahead is ludicrous. It has been debunked time and time again and will be more apparent when the cars currently in the soap kitchen using eyeq4 are released. Sure the tier1s and the automakers doing it are slow, but the tech is already there and the current AP NN is only at 10% of the capability of eyeq4, if that..

If you followed Tesla closely you would know that all of those reviews are outdated. What Tesla did in March of last year does not come close what it can do now.

 

[CarlK]

If you followed Tesla closely you would know that all of those reviews are outdated. What Tesla did in March of last year does not come close what it can do now.

His tactic seems to be ignoring Tesla's latest real world capabilities while tooting staged demos or videos of others as if they actually mean anything. He'd be in an even bigger surprise come middle of the year when no one would care about "demos" anymore.

Also need to be noted GM's implementation of eye check was pretty smart but that, and LIDAR mapping, have nothing to do with the Mobileye chip they use. It's the same as AP1, which was the best at that time, did not rely on Mobileye chip to achieve that extra capability. It's pretty sneaky for someone trying to use those to credit Mobileye.

 

[kbM3]

I'm glad you posted that and that @CarlK liked it so the ones i posted must also be accepted...oh wait who am i kidding, calk will just say they are paid off.

Gotta love being a tesla fan, you get to rationalize and use whatever source fits your narrative, and decry any other as big oil shills.

The Battle for Best Semi-Autonomous System: Tesla Autopilot Vs. GM SuperCruise, Head-to-Head

Cadillac Tops Tesla in Consumer Reports' First Ranking of Automated Driving Systems

Cadillac's semi-autonomous system is better than Tesla's or Volvo's

Cadillac Super Cruise Review: I like this more than Tesla Autopilot

We tested out Tesla Autopilot and Cadillac's Super Cruise — here's which one we liked better

Cadillac Super Cruise wins the 2019 Autoblog Technology of the Year Award


I could post more but you get the point. The idea that have been floating around that Tesla is 3 years ahead or 10 years ahead is ludicrous. It has been debunked time and time again and will be more apparent when the cars currently in the soap kitchen using eyeq4 are released. Sure the tier1s and the automakers doing it are slow, but the tech is already there and the current AP NN is only at 10% of the capability of eyeq4, if that..

Tesla fans motives are easily understandable. We love the product. We love coming here to discuss it.

People like yourself have motives that are not so easily understood. Do you go to Green Bay Packers websites just to talk about how their team is crappy? That kind of motivation and behavior is incomprehensible to well meaning folk.

 

[Bladerskb]

His tactic seems to be ignoring Tesla's latest real world capabilities while tooting staged demos or videos of others as if they actually mean anything. He'd be in an even bigger surprise come middle of the year when no one would care about "demos" anymore.

Also need to be noted GM's implementation of eye check was pretty smart but that, and LIDAR mapping, have nothing to do with the Mobileye chip they use. It's the same as AP1, which was the best at that time, did not rely on Mobileye chip to achieve that extra capability. It's pretty sneaky for someone trying to use those to credit Mobileye.

how would you see if i took out your eyes? AP1 and Supercruise was the only in-house development that wasn't contracted to tier1s that do the bare minimal.

EyeQ3 gave all the output you need such as lane, road edge, holistic path planning, vehicle/pedestrain detecting and tracking, traffic signs, etc. Its literally up to you to use it or no.

For example, Tesla was the only one who used EyeQ3's vehicle detection and tracking to show the cars around you in a display.
Tesla was also the only one who used the lead vehicle ahead for lane keeping when there was no lanes. Tesla was also the only one who used HPP and programmed the system to hug one side of the lane/curb if there were no lanes. All these were outputs coming from eyeQ3, its up to you to use it or not.

Automakers are slow, i have never doubted that. Even Amnon said it took Tesla 1 year and takes startups 1 year to integrate eyeq3 but it takes traditional automakers 3 years because they use tier 1s and outsource alot of things and tier 1s don't give a damn.

But that is changing in several ways and we will see it this year. Starting from March because in march Nissan is rumored to release their 8 camera system that was developed in house using EyeQ4. So watch out for March.

Lastly and I will say this for the last time, GM's Ushr's lidar WAS NOT USED for direct actuation control nor localization.

In regards to what Tesla currently have. Till they take away the need for confirmation, then its just the same as turn signal initiated lane change which other automakers have. Think about it, if Tesla is 3, 10 years ahead as you say @CarlK wouldn't they have something more advanced than the current EAP? That's a honest question i would love you to answer.

Lastly GM driver monitoring is amazing and the first for the industry but the location it was deployed to is pretty bad. It can be defeated by low hanging sun over your driving shoulder. Which would ofcourse prevent the system from engaging. I prefer the 2019 BMW version which is inside the clover of the IC and can't be affected by the sun.

https://cnet2.cbsistatic.com/img/ux...-4d68-a8bd-d75457752974/rs-2019-bmw-x5-54.jpg

Lastly i'm just as eager to see Tesla put HW3 in their cars. As a software engineer i'm more excited than you think.

 

[Glamisduner]

I'm glad you posted that and that @CarlK liked it so the ones i posted must also be accepted...oh wait who am i kidding, calk will just say they are paid off.

Gotta love being a tesla fan, you get to rationalize and use whatever source fits your narrative, and decry any other as big oil shills.

The Battle for Best Semi-Autonomous System: Tesla Autopilot Vs. GM SuperCruise, Head-to-Head

Cadillac Tops Tesla in Consumer Reports' First Ranking of Automated Driving Systems

Cadillac's semi-autonomous system is better than Tesla's or Volvo's

Cadillac Super Cruise Review: I like this more than Tesla Autopilot

We tested out Tesla Autopilot and Cadillac's Super Cruise — here's which one we liked better

Cadillac Super Cruise wins the 2019 Autoblog Technology of the Year Award


I could post more but you get the point. The idea that have been floating around that Tesla is 3 years ahead or 10 years ahead is ludicrous. It has been debunked time and time again and will be more apparent when the cars currently in the soap kitchen using eyeq4 are released. Sure the tier1s and the automakers doing it are slow, but the tech is already there and the current AP NN is only at 10% of the capability of eyeq4, if that..

On the right highway SC is great, but it does not work everywhere. Also those reviews are several months old there's been a ton of updates since those reviews. Enough that AP 2.5 feels like a completely different system since then and it's constantly improving. Not sure why you are comparing next gen abilities with current 2.5 capabilities, even 2.5 isn't currently utilized... Sentry mode will be here soon in 2.5 hardware too! AP 3.0 is also just around the corner and a 2.5 car will be upgradable to 3.0! The nice thing about Tesla is that 5 years from now I will still be getting updates while the current gm implementation will be left in the dust and I will need to buy a new car to catch up and hopefully surpass current ap 2.5.

I can't say that take will be ahead it behind in 5 years but with all those SC reviews why don't we see more SC cars?

Tesla may be far behind the FSD tech, but they still have the best currently available product, and most updateable product. What is currently available is all the matters when it comes to buying a car. There's always something better in the works.

 

[electronblue]

I guess given how much Tesla achieved with EyeQ3 and a single camera and radar, where they could be with more sensors and/or EyeQ4. EyeQ3 already could have used more than one camera.

The sad bit is: From a consumer perspective Tesla was a perfect implementation partner for a solid component provider like MobilEye — aggressive and quick, but when mated to sound and capable base components like EyeQ3 (and now EyeQ4) that could produce mighty impressive yet stable results.

From a consumer perspective Tesla lost two years by going it alone — and this is just on the basic level. Over time we will know if the gamble was worth it (or if they fall back even more) but so far Tesla as a provider of that ”base tech” has not been as impressive as they were as an integrator customer of such tech.

Every time those cars seem to crash onto me on my IC (which is all the time) I think how beautiful that display would be were MobilEye’s chips feeding that data instead. And every time the speed limit database is wrong (which is all the time) I think how even EyeQ3 would do better let alone EyeQ4. Tesla still can’t even detect traffic signs which EyeQ2 did actually a decade ago...

 

[electronblue]

The biggest differece between them, aside from that Mobileye is late to the NN game, is Tesla is doing the full solution while Mobileye is only providing a part of it. Of course they could work with customers to tune each's work but there is no comparison to the way at Tesla where you have everyone from HW SW to AI and testing guys working in the same building, for the same boss and can see each other everyday. In Mobileye' case, or for that matter Nvidia or Bosch or Delphi's, how often they could meet with their customers and how soon a request could get a feedback from either way?

Then there is the most critical issue of who is going to be responsible for the machine learning? The chip makers? The car makers? Or they do it together in a slow process? Don't think they could ever catch Tesla that way. No one could catch SpaceX because vertical integration let it to move fast. This is applied to the Tesla FSD which I'd say the writing is on the wall even without thinking how far ahead Tesla already is.

I don’t agree MobilEye is late to the NN game, they simply use a more diverse and efficient set of technologies that allows them to do much more than Tesla does currently with much less computing power. And MobilEye is significantly more accurate and reliable in my view.

We have previously agreed to disagree I think on our belief on how machine learning plays a role in this so I’ll leave it at that. Suffice to say in my view MobilEye is ahead of Tesla in that part. I acknowledge you disagree.

I do agree in-house integration can provide efficiences. And like @Bladerskb I have always thought car makers often are slow on the uptake of new technologies like those in MobilEye’s chips too. Tesla was quicker and that made them a great MobilEye integration partner for consumers.

But so far in this particular space (driving aids and autonomous systems) Tesla got better results when they partnered up. I sincerely believe AP today would be multiple times more impressive than it is had Tesla upgraded it together with MobilEye components instead of going it alone.

Tesla and EyeQ4 together would have been a formidable partnership. Too bad it did not happen.

 

[Glamisduner]

I guess given how much Tesla achieved with EyeQ3 and a single camera and radar, where they could be with more sensors and/or EyeQ4. EyeQ3 already could have used more than one camera.

The sad bit is: From a consumer perspective Tesla was a perfect implementation partner for a solid component provider like MobilEye — aggressive and quick, but when mated to sound and capable base components like EyeQ3 (and now EyeQ4) that could produce mighty impressive yet stable results.

From a consumer perspective Tesla lost two years by going it alone — and this is just on the basic level. Over time we will know if the gamble was worth it (or if they fall back even more) but so far Tesla as a provider of that ”base tech” has not been as impressive as they were as an integrator customer of such tech.

Every time those cars seem to crash onto me on my IC (which is all the time) I think how beautiful that display would be were MobilEye’s chips feeding that data instead. And every time the speed limit database is wrong (which is all the time) I think how even EyeQ3 would do better let alone EyeQ4. Tesla still can’t even detect traffic signs which EyeQ2 did actually a decade ago...

Are you saying it is not possible for teslas to see speed signs? Or only stating that they have not implemented this yet? My wifes volvo does this.