Hopefully everyone is waking up to this article
Tesla Model 3: Exclusive first look at Tesla’s new battery pack architecture
Tesla Model 3: Exclusive first look at Tesla’s new battery pack architecture
You can install our site as a web app on your iOS device by utilizing the Add to Home Screen feature in Safari. Please see this thread for more details on this.
Note: This feature may not be available in some browsers.
Where do you get this from?Now add in slower charging and less performance
Where do you get this from?
Where do you get this from?
Ok I think I have to be the first to say this, so please brace yourself:
If the base Model 3 really has 50 kWh, as stated in the article, the cells are worse than the 18650s.
They only have about 16.8 Wh per cell (50 kWh/2976), where the Model S pack has 12.4 Wh per cell (102 kWh/8256). So about 36% more energy per cell.
But the cell has 46% more volume, but who cares about volumetric energy density anyways?
But even if the internals weigh nothing and almost all the weight would be in the cells shell, then it would still weigh 26% more than the 18650 and since the internals weigh something, the cells probably would have a worse gravimetric energy density, too.
Now add in slower charging and less performance and either the new cell format is just worse than the 18650s, or the pack has more than 50kWh total capacity.
Max supercharging rates are 130mi/30 min and 170mi/30 min for SR and LR, respectively. That's 59% and 55%, respectively, of the pack in half an hour, which is a bit poor performing compared to modern S and X packs
Check those calcs @R.S and compare to Karen's. The Model 3 gets to a higher percentage of range faster than the P100D in your video.The slower charging is by looking at the fast charge rate of the LR, 170 miles in 30 minutes. So 47.8% in 30 minutes, while the 100D only takes 27 minutes to get to the same percentage. Surely not much worse, but not better either.
@R.S
1) Just because one calls a pack "50 kWh" doesn't mean it's exactly 50 kWh. It generally means that "usable" power is "around" 50 kWh.
2) Who cares about energy density, volumetric or gravitmetric, anyway? The number 1 parameter that matters in EV packs is $/kWh. The number 2 parameter is longevity. The number 3 parameter is power density. Gravimetric and volumetric density are distant in #4 and #5. The vehicle comes in at a similar curb weight to other vehicles in its price class, so what's the problem?
3) Charging rates may be reduced simply because it's a cheaper car and they can't afford as many warranty claims on it, so they don't let you abuse your pack as much as an S and X will.
4) Reiterating #2 for emphasis: The parameter that really matters is $/kWh. If you have lots of money to throw at an EV for a battery pack that you might consider "better", I recommend getting an S.
The Model 3 can charge nearly as many miles in 30 minutes than has been shown on the older S60 in an hour.
Let's compare apples to apples. The base Model 3 charges faster in miles per minute than the Model S 60 and goes 0-60 mph nearly as fast as the older S60 RWD simply due to the weight reduction and more aerodynamic nature of the car.
The Model 3 can charge nearly as many miles in 30 minutes than has been shown on the older S60 in an hour.
2) Everyone does. If you like to think like Elon and break it down to "first principles" the price directly correlates with the cost. The lighter it gets, the cheaper it gets.
Yeah, but the older S60s have always been poor-performers at charging. Hence people see this as a step backwards.
Note how the S85 would have charged even faster had it not been charger limited in the beginning. The M3 is never charger limited.
But that has nothing to do with the cells, does it?
Warning: Some people complain that his videos are too long, he knows that, but obviously doesn't care
buy new calculator 170/310 = 55%The slower charging is by looking at the fast charge rate of the LR, 170 miles in 30 minutes. So 47.8% in 30 minutes, while the 100D only takes 27 minutes to get to the same percentage. Surely not much worse, but not better either.
And Elons Quotes here:
Elon Musk Says Tesla Model S & X Won't Get New 2170 Cell
Yet, if we compare to the P100D in the video posted above. It gained nearly 51% battey capacity or 160 miles of range in 30 min compared to the 170 by the Model 3 LR.
The exact performance of the cells doesn't matter nearly as much as real world usage. This is the entire reason they've stopped branding the cars. People get tripped up on the numbers and ignore that in miles/minute a Model 3 LR is charging faster than a P100D as shown in the video. Model 3 LR is more on par with the S100D in miles per minute (due to efficiency/mile, obviously).
...and obviously in kWh the larger packs are charging more quickly, but that's not the point I'm making
That's not true at all. Lower-cobalt chemistries, for example, are cheaper, but have poorer energy and power density.
People from Tesla have repeatedly stated that they get companies coming in all the time trying to get Tesla interested in some new chemistry or another. They have all sorts of great specs about its energy density, power density, etc, etc - but Tesla always asks them to cut straight to one thing, often the thing that they want to talk about least: what's the cost per kWh? That matters more than anything else to Tesla.
buy new calculator 170/310 = 55%
You have to compare the energy use of the dedicated pack heater to the energy used by the power train. I would have thought the dedicated heater would be more efficient, but that’s just a guess. You do save by not having to haul the extra weight of the heater all the time, even when not in use. So even if the power train method of heating is less efficient, you would get longer range when it’s warm.Very interesting about the lack of a pack heater I wonder what this will do for winter range, since the pack heater would typically use a fair amount of power at the beginning of a winter trip.