Model 3 Mid-range is Best for Road Trips?

[KJD]

Based on what I am reading on this forum, supercharger use is hard on the battery if used regularly and especially if you charge to 100%. At least that is what the SA told me on a Model 3 test drive in Palm Desert this week.
I live in a Canadian city that sees -35C weather occasionally and -20C regularly during December to late February. I've read that cold temperature can cut range by 40%. So, for an M3 with LR battery (AWD), 500km range (300 miles) becomes 300 KMs (180 miles) at cold temps. But, wait; if you want the lowest rate of battery degradation Tesla recommends charging to 80% and recharging at 20% range remaining. So the range from 300 KMs becomes 240 kms (144 miles), and that is to zero range. If you follow the 20% range remaining as the point to recharge, you have a usable 180kms (108 miles).

Everyone I have talked to at Tesla said to set your charge limit to 90% for daily use and there is no problem if you run the battery down to 10%.

I would agree that the long range battery is better in many ways, but there is no need to limit yourself to to 80% and 20% state of charge.

 

[HopeToGolf]

I learned something lately. I live in Montreal, so cold temp also ( not winnipeg cold, but cold

Either the superchargers are about 170km apart which a MR van do, or over 300 km. In really cold weather, i am not sure the LR can fill the gap. However if I could do it again I would go for the LR just for the extra margin...

Agee...the LR was the only option when I purchased my Model 3. However, I decided even with a short commute I was going to buy the LR. It eliminates range anxiety. I did not want to *think* about “fuel.” Just like I did not think about gas with my ICE. I wanted to get in and go and not have to worry about running out of electricity.

 

[SSedan]

On the cold temps/range/pack size I feel people are using daily driving experience and applying that to road trip range estimates.
When you first start driving and the pack and cabin need to warm energy use can double or even more BUT as those warm up energy use lowers and yes cabin heat will continue to draw more power than it does at milder temps but not anything like a 40% range reduction on long trips. At least not in my experience at single digits F. My daily commute at single digits F most definitely cuts range in half, but not long trips.

If driving a long distance in the cold preheat the car aggressively so as to get the warmup energy is out of the way before unplugging. I will even raise the cabin temp while plugged in for this purpose.

 

[SalisburySam]

...and for road tripping purposes, Mid-Range is the way to go.

Er, no, at least not for me. Coming from a Nissan LEAF with comparably pathetic range and a practically impossible ability to road trip, I wanted my next EV to have more range than typical ICE vehicles. That would accommodate range loss for heat in cold weather, obviously not an issue for an ICE. I’ve gotten about 350-385 miles per fuel tank in an ICE so I really wanted a 400-mile range EV. Well, that never happened, but in 2018 two vehicles broke the 300-mile barrier and I became interested. I tried to get a Bolt but local dealerships were so totally not interested in that vehicle at all that I reserved a Model 3 in April, 2018. Got it in July and haven’t looked back.

But back to the point, after the LEAF and its range anxiety and trip uselessness, I would always opt for the longest range battery available to minimize trip refueling time. For local use I charge at home, but lengthy and multiple charging stops on a trip are not my cup of tea. And by lengthy, I mean longer than what it would take me to fill up an ICE. The SuperCharger network makes EV ownership as an ICE replacement possible and practical...it doesn’t make the stops more pleasurable even with the games, for me.

I still have and use my 2012 LEAF, mostly in the winter for local trips (it has a heated steering wheel), but my Model 3’s 310-mile range versus a lesser amount has never entered my sphere of consideration. Just wish it had the 400 I really wanted. Oh well, next EV.

 

[duanra]

Ok, i'm coming back from my 1st road trip with my mid range.
Conditions : 5 people in the car, bagages, temp -15c.
So when I had a decent supercharger coverage, about 200 km apart. I didn't have any issue.
However, i reached a point with no supercharger for a distance of 400km.
(Could a LR do 400km at -15c ?)
So i decided to m ake a stop at a destination charger, and that is when i really wished i had the LR, since, if i am not mistaken, the LR could charge at 11kw and the MR at only 7 kw.

 

[Olavxxx]

I am not sure about how long you can drive, as it depends on speed etc.

 

[duanra]

Actually i just checked with abetter planner, and it doesn't work. However as i said before, if i could go back in time i would take the LR. But you can certainly use the MR for road trip.

What is the range of a leaf ?
About 240 km for the latest one ?
140 km for the previous one ?
The MR is about 420 km.
I don't think it is comparable.

 

[Olavxxx]

I owned X75D for 1 year, sold it and I am going for the model 3 performance.
So for me it will be a very good upgrade, but even so the X75D was "ok" for trips, I didnt want to drive very many hours in strech anyways before grabbing some coffe and eating something. So with the model 3 performance in Norway I will be able to do more lengths of driving than I need.

But I didnt swap for range actually, it was mostly due to the fact that I most of the time drove alone and the maxed out X75D had a much higher price tag than the model 3 performance, so my theory is that since I drove so little and mostly alone, the value loss of the model 3 performance will be less and it will give me more fun as a car I drive alone.

Will do some trips yearly though with my gf and our son at about 1,5 yrs old.
But you will be fine in the MR version, even though you could have charged less in the LR or Perf.

With the X75D I calculated that I could have charged 15 minutes less in a 500 km trip if I had X100D.
So this of course begs the question how much your time is worth.

With the model 3 performance though you also get some other stuff like performance, carbon spoiler, better brakes, better suspension and 20" with sporty tires. So for the model 3 I believe the performance upgrade holds its value quite good compared to the price difference in S and X where you then end up paying much much more. Like S75D vs S100D is more difference in price than M3 MR vs M3 Performance, yet the S100D still has same suspension, wheels, brakes and accelleration. It of course has more range, but you would then need the P100D upgrade in the S to get the crazy performance. And then the price is suddenly double that of the S75D.

Of course it is still cheap compared to what a petrol fueled car with same performance would cost But since I drive less than 12.000km/yr, I dont think its worth that much to have a car, after all it will loose most of its value within 8 years.

 

[intenost]

Ok, i'm coming back from my 1st road trip with my mid range.
Conditions : 5 people in the car, bagages, temp -15c.
So when I had a decent supercharger coverage, about 200 km apart. I didn't have any issue.
However, i reached a point with no supercharger for a distance of 400km.
(Could a LR do 400km at -15c ?)
So i decided to m ake a stop at a destination charger, and that is when i really wished i had the LR, since, if i am not mistaken, the LR could charge at 11kw and the MR at only 7 kw.

Thanks for the report, I also went for MR and so far have just done local trips, took the long way home once to get low enough charge (35%) to get a supercharge in for the experience. Very dense supercharger coverage in my travel area (Northeast to Mid-Atlantic USA) so I'm hopeful I will be fine with the MR. Can't speak from firsthand knowledge but I think 400km with a full load at -15c would be a nail-biter even in a long range. Regarding the charging speed on the MR vs LR I was kinda surprised when I found that out, however, I suppose the smaller battery closes the gap somewhat if you compare time to full charge for both. But if you are just looking to pick up enough charge to get you a supercharger or destination you'll fill up faster with the long-range setup if you have the amps to feed it.

 

[duanra]

I am sure you will be fine. For me driving 200 km in a row works really well. Time to take a break and you charge, have s coffee etc...by the way i found abetterroute planner website pretty accurate.

 

[sperkin]

How many miles did you get after 40min in the MR? I believe the LR will capture more miles after 40min then a MR due to the charging speed from 10-80%. There are just more batteries in a LR at 80% then a MR.

It also doesn"t matter since your MR got you where you needed to go after 40min. Either way, you made a good decision. There's no other EVs that can make the same trip in the same amount of time it took.

 

[ItsNotAboutTheMoney]

I just completed a 550 mile, 3 day road trip from Santa Barbara Area to the Bay Area in our new Mid-Range. This was my first time using solely the Superchargers and noticed all chargers were limited to 40 min. Some cut off the charge at 40 min and some didn’t and I was able to charge more but didn’t do more than 45 min. At all places I was getting the max rate, about 110 kw which tapered to about 20-30 kw at 80-85% state of charge. At that rate and with the 40 min limit, it seems like having a larger battery is pointless and less efficient cars like the Dual Motor/Performance Model 3 or Model S and X will get the least amount of range from the supercharge. Any other Mid-Range owners observe this? At this time I am pretty happy that I didn’t spend the extra money on the bigger battery and for road tripping purposes, Mid-Range is the way to go.

Bigger is better for road tripping. Efficiency loss is more than offset by greater range and charging rates. Even if the LR is limited by the Superchargers initially, it wouldn't taper as much. It also has faster AC charging (48A v 32A).

If you didn't want the AWD, you could have bought the LR RWD off menu.

The only question is whether the LR RWD would be worth the extra cost.

 

[Matt L]

These are the newest thing at busy superchargers:
View attachment 364824

Does that apply to F-150s?

Perhaps they should spend a bit of energy ensuring the assclowns aren’t blocking the chargers... just saying

 

[Matt L]

What I feel is, we need more people to actually charge at home, when they can. If superchargers were only used by people who "needed" to use them either on road trips or because they had no charging available at home (instead of people trying wanting to get free electricity because it was promised they could), we would have less of an issue with overcrowding them.

Thats expecting too much of the general public though. Early adopters might be willing to do that, but the general public, no.

Adding more super chargers in dense areas would only encourage more local people to use them while they grocery shop... but this may be part of teslas "mission" in getting people off ICE cars.

I personally feel that supercharging should be slightly annoying, so that people charge at home if they can, thereby freeing them up for people who need them.

That reeks of socialism. I pay for electricity at home and I pay at a Supercharger. I was sold a nationwide charging network. If there are capacity issues, Tesla needs to address them.

The either need to add more chargers or stop making it a free all you can eat buffet.

 

[BobRae99]

Of course it is still cheap compared to what a petrol fueled car with same performance would cost But since I drive less than 12.000km/yr, I dont think its worth that much to have a car, after all it will loose most of its value within 8 years.

I’m curious to know what you lost ($ value and % of purchase price) on your Model X after one year. The SA at Tesla Palm Desert just told me that the 3 year, residual on a model X is 49%. I’d say after 8 years you’d be lucky to get 15% of the purchase price. While Tesla makes a great electric car, the Model 3 LR AWD at $78,000, is not on par with a similarly priced BMW 3 series. And it currently has no lease option which means when they decide to up the range by 100 kms on newer cars the value of your current car will drop.

I went on 2 test drives of a Model 3 LR in the last week and while I liked the car and electric is definitely “cool”, its not 3 series from a interior and assembly point of view. My position is = buy the most range you can afford because tomorrow’s car will definitely have more range, plus it helps reduce anxiety/reliance on charging while out of range of your home charger will be reduced.

 

[EVDRVN]

California is hitting a critical mass of Tesla's where there always is a queue at peak times. I was at Dublin CA and there were 8 cars waiting to be charged. I waited till later that night to charge. Gilroy I had to wait about 10 min around lunch time. At a friend's in Dublin, he said there were 10 Tesla's on his block. We need more superchargers!

All those slow mid-range packs clogging them up with long charge times Larger the pack , shorter time needed to move on. Hit it hard a fast and move on. Look how many idiots sit at 90-100.

 

[Olavxxx]

I’m curious to know what you lost ($ value and % of purchase price) on your Model X after one year. The SA at Tesla Palm Desert just told me that the 3 year, residual on a model X is 49%. I’d say after 8 years you’d be lucky to get 15% of the purchase price. While Tesla makes a great electric car, the Model 3 LR AWD at $78,000, is not on par with a similarly priced BMW 3 series. And it currently has no lease option which means when they decide to up the range by 100 kms on newer cars the value of your current car will drop.

I went on 2 test drives of a Model 3 LR in the last week and while I liked the car and electric is definitely “cool”, its not 3 series from a interior and assembly point of view. My position is = buy the most range you can afford because tomorrow’s car will definitely have more range, plus it helps reduce anxiety/reliance on charging while out of range of your home charger will be reduced.

I sold mine "cheap" (so it sold in 1 day), It cost 95,450 dollars.
Then I bougnt 22" ONYX refferal wheels new from someone else for 3480 dollars.
Then I bouglt some XPEL foil, mats from toughpro.
Also I bought Chademo adapter

Used car for 1 year (10700 Km) and sold it for 82677 USD.

I could have maybe sold it for upwards to 84-85.000 USD.
So this is one of the reasons I go to 3 performance, it is (slightly) cheaper, so it will deprecate slightly less.

Of course I could ahve gone with m3 LR, but the performance is a racecar priced like a Volvo stationwagon.
In Norway a car that matches the 3 performance in accelleration would be the bmw m5 (2018 model), that costs from 220.000 dollar here.
Then you get the maxed out 3 performance for 72000 usd here, so its really a bargain I think.

If you have a loan, I would set it to max 8 years for having a good balance between payments and deprecation.
First year you will loose most, you should think 10-20 pct first year and then less in yr 2, 3 etc.

In Norway a lot of Teslas are out for sales though, as they are everywhere here.
So in your region maybe there are less cars and more buyers?

 

[BobRae99]

I think the model 3 performance is more closely compared to a BMW M3, or Mperformance 340, not the 5. As to what the Model 3 will lose in depreciation over the next 3 years will depend on what other manufacturers (or Tesla) brings to market in the next 3 - 4 years. Tesla will bring the Model Y which will compete with the BMW iX3. Based on the interior quality and fit and finish of Tesla, if the BMW gets equal range or close to it, Tesla will have some competition and used car prices will reflect that. BMW has some elbow room, where Tesla says it is limited by needed cash flow. So, the model 3 doesn’t have a lease program (and there I’d no lease program in my province at all) snuff that may be the same with the model Y. So, BMW will do what it does: artificially high residuals with attractive lease rates available in all markets, to bring the monthly payment down. As I staid, it difficult to predict what any EV is going to be worth in 5 yards from now.

 

[halfricanguy]

My wife spent 15 minutes today awaiting a SC stall in South Georgia on I-75, in Tifton. 8 stalls, an early location that provides a lifeline for all vehicles between North Florida and Macon/Atlanta. Tifton is now a bottleneck. No doubt I will hear about this 15 minute wait from her, somewhat reasonably, as an early warning to us in the SE that holiday weekend daytime road-tripping is no longer a thoughtless exercise in a Tesla.

I recommend everyone sending a note to Tesla for feedback on Supercharger development. I personally think they need to look at the concentration of chargers in the southeast and mid-west. If I had a problem traveling I-95 in a LR RWD car, then the SR drivers will be in for a rude awakening...sure, some will say they shouldn't be traveling in a SR car to begin with, but people need to drive!

 

[duanra]

Well, if they sell the SR, they should provide the Superchargers network to travel with no ?