They could also improve reliability which would lower costs related to warranty claims. It seems like they've already achieved this on the S/X motors but there's always room for improvement.
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Model 3 Motors VS Model S/X motors
- Thread starter juanmedina
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I think a lot of us were expecting Tesla to use the current small motor that's in both front and rear of all the D cars and the front motor for PxxDs as the single rear motor for base 3s, but no one that knows would be permitted to post.
I'm kinda expecting a smaller/cheaper motor than that for the 3xxD in front and rear, and possibly as the 3PxxD front.
But it's all speculation for now...
Good point!
It would really make sense to come up with new motors for the AWD. The large one in the base 75 Model S could put out as much power as the large one in the P100D. Something like that is ok for a low volume car, but not for something more mass market. The volumes will be big enough, to try to avoid over engineering, even if it means more complexity.
For the base Model 3, they could still use the small Model S/X motor design, maybe a bit improved, and a new inverter. But the AWD Model 3 would need 2 small Model S motors, if they didn't come up with new ones, which would be 520 installed hp, that just won't be used. It would make much more sense to introduce smaller, less powerful, motors for the D versions.
So I think especially the AWD motors will be new, for the Model 3. The larger drive units could just be improved Model S/X D motors.
JB Sträubel discussed these issues during the International Transport Forum in 2016 in Germany.
he suggested coming significant developments in essentially all areas, but emphasized that the most important factor now is cost reduction. A quick review of electric motors over the last 100 years does show that there have been few genuine transformational technologies but there have been constant improvements in durability, cost reduction, quality control coupled with constant improvements in preferred technology for a given application. The net has been constant cost reduction, durability and efficiency increases. It seems probable that Tesla will not change from the existing approach, but will make great advances in inverters, clerical transmission losses, wiring, including windings, and a few other areas. Probably none of these will be individually great but they'll probably combine to give a net operating efficiency improvement of several percent (i.e. >5%) in aggregate, independent of other improvements. More importantly, probably, will be the more highly automated production and cost reduction from improved manufacturing process. That also will yield improved quality and better durability.
Unless I am grossly in error, all these things are yielding a 'virtuous cycle'.
Garlan Garner
Banned
Elon SAID that nothing will be in the Model 3 that isn't a part of the Model S.
He's breaking the rules.
JeffK
Well-Known Member
JeffK
Well-Known Member
Exactly, point was new isn't necessarily better. The new Model 3 door handles were to save costs. Same is true with the "2170"s. Cost was the major driving factor.
Garlan Garner
Banned
JeffK
Well-Known Member
You responded to it:
to which you said:
While the Model 3 will have a subset of features in the Model S there is a lot of new unique hardware, not found on the Model S.
The Semi will use Model 3 motors, but the Model 3 isn't using Model S parts.
Garlan Garner
Banned
Wait....we are talking about 3 different vehicles.
This is a Model 3 thread. My comments here are about Model 3.
Fact: Elon said that nothing in the Model 3 will exist without first being used in the Model S
Fact: Elon said that the Tesla Semi includes Model 3 motors.
I don't see the problem.
JeffK
Well-Known Member
Features, not hardware. Example: door handles, inverter, "2170"s, supposedly a new motor according to JB, chassis (obviously).
Garlan Garner
Banned
Wait...where did I say something incorrectly? I'm not understanding why we are having this conversation.
The Model 3 will have fewer options.
Yes the door handles, inverter, battery, motor, trunk, acceleration, distance, dual screens, auto-opening doors, power folding side mirrors, lighted door handles, interior accent lighting, HEPA filtered cabin, smart air suspension, become part of the discussion of options that Elon might be talking about.
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JeffK
Well-Known Member
Garlan Garner
Banned
Question:point was he's not breaking his own rules
Did Elon say that nothing is going in the Model 3 that isn't in the Model S?
I don't know, did he? I don't remember that. I just remember the quote about no new user facing tech. Can you provide a link?
Edit: Basically, what I remember is this quote, which says there will be new tech for the Model 3, just nothing "majorly new the consumer would notice":
Will the Model 3 use any significantly new technology that has yet to be introduced to the S or X?
- Elon MuskVerified account @elonmusk Mar 24
Replying to @VoltzCoreAudio
Nothing majorly new that a consumer would notice. Lots of new tech in the design and production process though.
- Elon MuskVerified account @elonmusk Mar 24
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JeffK
Well-Known Member
Here are relevant quotes:
The internals of the car may be brand new tech but the consumer wouldn't necessarily notice as it's not consumer facing... He was dismissing the notion of a HUD in a single tweet.
The gist I got was:
Model 3 = new, lower cost, more efficient but != better than Model S
And so, in the context of this thread, a brand new motor where the new design was for manufacturing reasons and not performance would definitely qualify as "nothing majorly new that a consumer would notice".
As well as a gazillion other redesigned parts.
As well as a gazillion other redesigned parts.
Garlan Garner
Banned
JeffK
Well-Known Member
...but if you design a possibly smaller motor that's lower cost and easier to reproduce, why would you want to put it in your expensive models which likely have better motors? (this is why I keep coming back to the example of door handles.)
Now if they switched to PMAC then that would be pretty interesting.
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