Model 3 Performance tires not rated for temp below 20 F ?

[skitown]

To the OP, yes, it’s true. You can’t use Summer tires under 40°F.


Why ruin an amazing car with horrible tires? Summers tires and Snow tires. Just swap them twice a year. It was bad enough when it came with RE-92s.

All-Season tires are worse at everything.

To each his own. My ‘13 WRX was on a fair bit of gravel/dirt roads in the Summer when I owned it and the summer tires just didn’t fit my use case. And our Summers are short. Despite that I kept them. Only had the car for a couple years before buying my first Model S. We aren’t known for our asphalt here in central Idaho. And yes I always have a second set of winter tires mounted on wheels. Which are on our cars ~7 months a year. Super happy with our Model 3 AWD with its Nokian Hakkas right now.

 

[dhanson865]

Expectations when purchasing a performance version of any car are that it comes with performance tires. Performance tires have turned to rocks in cool to cold weather since there have been performance tires. My opinion is that there would be more outcry if the performance version didn't come with performance tires. I'd be in favour of three-season tires being offered as an option, but if you live in an area that has a real winter, you're still going to need a set of real high quality winter tires, preferably mounted on a second set of wheels. An extra set of wheels and tires is peanuts compared to an accident.

Winter wheels and tires for the M3 are listed in the Tesla site. I'm sure they can be mounted before delivery.

This isn't an issue of traction. This is an issue of thousands of dollars worth of tires being damaged before the car leaves the delivery location.

The warning says it isn't even safe to roll the car at all. You could have a car at a service center and still have to put it up on jacks to remove tires because you can't roll the car into the bay to work on it.

 

[dhanson865]

To the OP, yes, it’s true. You can’t use Summer tires under 40°F.


Why ruin an amazing car with horrible tires? Summers tires and Snow tires. Just swap them twice a year. It was bad enough when it came with RE-92s.

All-Season tires are worse at everything.

Not true. All Season tires have better traction than summer or winter tires on wet pavement around and above freezing. There is a small band of temps in that 30-45F range where all season tires can be superior.

If you want to say Summer + Winter tires are better than All Seasons in most scenarios that is true. But saying they are better always is false.

 

[jerry33]

Not true. All Season tires have better traction than summer or winter tires on wet pavement around and above freezing. There is a small band of temps in that 30-45F range where all season tires can be superior.

If you want to say Summer + Winter tires are better than All Seasons in most scenarios that is true. But saying they are better always is false.

I'd suggest that this graph is very general and doesn't take into account individual tire characteristics. In each category there are tires that outperform the average and also tires that underperform. If the lines in the graph were a band instead of a line, the area where all-seasons perform better would likely be much smaller. This graph also doesn't cover the all-weather tires, nor does it say much about what the horizontal scale is (water depth when wet but not frozen) and how it relates to temperature. When the temperature is very cold (-40 or lower) ice behaves like pavement. I also doubt that the graph includes what happens at various wear stages. Traction in non-dry situations is actually quite complex. Especially in snow and ice where the conditions can radically change in a few minutes.

(I realize the tire manufacturers don't provide the detailed results needed to make a better graph, just pointing out that this is very general and may not apply to specific tires.)

 

[dfwatt]

To the OP, yes, it’s true. You can’t use Summer tires under 40°F.


Why ruin an amazing car with horrible tires? Summers tires and Snow tires. Just swap them twice a year. It was bad enough when it came with RE-92s.

All-Season tires are worse at everything.

Might be a partial exception that the rule on that point: Michelin Pilot Sport A/S3+. They are passable in snow, great in wet and dry. A bit firm on the ride front, but if you don't have a lot of snow (probably not a tire for Minnesota IOW), don't want the hassle of swapping wheels or the bigger hassle of mounting and unmounting 4 tires twice a year, they are the closest thing to a one stop solution. We put on a pair on our NH car, and were stunned by how well they handled. Very very close to the 4S. Not quite as quiet either, but they are amazing overall, and obviously, they work below freezing, which the 4S doesn't.

 

[dhanson865]

I'd suggest that this graph is very general and doesn't take into account individual tire characteristics. In each category there are tires that outperform the average and also tires that underperform. If the lines in the graph were a band instead of a line, the area where all-seasons perform better would likely be much smaller. This graph also doesn't cover the all-weather tires, nor does it say much about what the horizontal scale is (water depth when wet but not frozen) and how it relates to temperature. When the temperature is very cold (-40 or lower) ice behaves like pavement. I also doubt that the graph includes what happens at various wear stages. Traction in non-dry situations is actually quite complex. Especially in snow and ice where the conditions can radically change in a few minutes.

(I realize the tire manufacturers don't provide the detailed results needed to make a better graph, just pointing out that this is very general and may not apply to specific tires.)

You can buy crappy tires of any type. But there is no point in graphing the performance characteristics of crappy $35-$55 tires from the shop down the street that's always running a half off sale.

I'd agree that individual tires would graph differently but the point of the graph was to refute an absolute statement. You are picking at the specifics to ignore the general statement it was posted in response to. In case you forgot the point was

which is false. If you'd like to talk about all the details of thousands of different tires instead of just saying yep, that absolute statement was false. Go for it if that's your thing.

I'd still say that if you are comparing similarly price premium tires the All Season will have some temperature at which it'll do better on wet pavement than both the Summer and Winter tires. It might be a small area on the graph, just a few degrees, but it's not always worse no matter what.

 

[TMeister]

...
I'd still say that if you are comparing similarly price premium tires the All Season will have some temperature at which it'll do better on wet pavement than both the Summer and Winter tires. It might be a small area on the graph, just a few degrees, but it's not always worse no matter what.

How about we say that all season tires are optimized across a wider band of conditions than summers or winters?

 

[Oyinko]

I'm aware about the issue regarding cold temperatures for performance tires, reason being I usually have a winter set. However it got stolen couple weeks ago in my garage and I'm in the process of buying another one for the upcoming winter season.

I'm supposed to go up in the sierras next week where it's supposed to go as low as 25°F. Rain/Snow is not in the forecast. How bad is this for the tires?

 

[jjrandorin]

I'm aware about the issue regarding cold temperatures for performance tires, reason being I usually have a winter set. However it got stolen couple weeks ago in my garage and I'm in the process of buying another one for the upcoming winter season.

I'm supposed to go up in the sierras next week where it's supposed to go as low as 25°F. Rain/Snow is not in the forecast. How bad is this for the tires?

if you have summer tires only it is not safe to drive those tires for any length of time in that temperature. Its not just bad for the tires, its not safe for YOU. The rubber compound starts to change on summer tires in weather that cold, and "rain / snow " may not be in the forecast, but if it snows you likely wouldnt be able to stop in any decent manner at all. Its not starting moving thats the problem.... its stopping.

I was going to link a video but there are tons online, if you are interested. I absolutely wouldnt do it.

 

[dfwatt]

I'm aware about the issue regarding cold temperatures for performance tires, reason being I usually have a winter set. However it got stolen couple weeks ago in my garage and I'm in the process of buying another one for the upcoming winter season.

I'm supposed to go up in the sierras next week where it's supposed to go as low as 25°F. Rain/Snow is not in the forecast. How bad is this for the tires?

You didn't specify which tire but I assume you're talking about the Michelin Pilot Sport 4S. I would not drive them at 25 degrees Fahrenheit. Once they are cold soaked overnight in other words where they've been exposed to temperatures right around that number for many hours, they are vulnerable to tread cracking. It's just not safe and you really don't want to take the chance. Some other performance tires have that vulnerability at even higher temperatures right around freezing. Even if they're not cold soaked and vulnerable to cracking, they have a very poor coefficient of friction as the tread compound heads into the 20s and the tread becomes hard as a rock. Don't do it in other words. It's not worth it.