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Model 3 Road Noise
- Thread starter enemji
- Start date
Yes. when you cover up the floor noise, the noise from the upper level is more apparent. Achieving a balance is crucial.
Regarding the db level of sound reduction, I concur. It is not much, but it attenuated annoying frequencies and makes it bearable, esp on rough concrete roads. Reducing the full range of road noise would require redesign of the suspension components.
Georgesb2
George Borrelli
I haven't made a final sound reduction conclusion yet is because I've eliminated virtually all the noise I possibly could. But now there's only a noise/vibration in the entire car that I can't seem to be able to do anything about and I've tried just about everything. The vibration is very small in amplitude, so small that you really have to place your hand to carefully feel it. But it creates a kind of noise, read on...
I believe it is suspension related. So I am in agreement with enemji on his comment above.
I also changed the shocks, which has improved the ride but that vibration remains. It's difficult to explain it, what it sounds and feels like. I think it exists in all vehicles but is largely masked by other noises. Now that all the other noises have been reduced in my car, only that pesky "vibration" remains. It's not tire balance. On smooth roads, it's absolutely quiet. But most roads have undulations, rough, older asphalt being the worst. That causes the suspension to work in a unique manner, very short, rapid movements up and down. I'm not talking about bigger bumps and dips. I think the suspension "sings" or oscillates naturally going up and down. It could be the shocks "switching" their resistance from up to down, and it could be the springs simply oscillating as the wheels move rapidly but very little up and down. I really don't know.
I "hear" and feel (barely feel) that vibration even going slowly on my dirt and crushed stone gravel driveway.
The sound and vibration seems to be "everywhere" in the car. Coming from no particular place. I've already done a lot of sound deadening and sound absorbing. It's not "tire noise" per se, anymore. It's more like a very small vibration. But enough that I find to be disturbing.
I do have noise sensitivity, so I'm struggling with how to present my findings in a wrap up comment and or video. Others may not have an issue with it. I was intentionally delaying posting any summary comments until I could figure it out more conclusively. My guess at the moment is that the vibration might not bother other people and they might find my car to be rather quiet now.
I've been giving thought about it and I now think the only way to practically reduce this sound/vibration and further reduce general and this specific "noise" is change of wheel size and tires. My performance model 3 has large diameter wheels and very short very stiff tires with virtually no absorption whatsoever (OEM Pirelli P Z). I notice as the tires wear, this issue I feel gets worse quite quickly as wear progresses. (I have 17,200 miles on these original tires) My guess is if we had no rubber, just steel wheels that noise/vibration would be incredibly loud but it would be the type that I have.
Once I get new tires, I'll feel better about wrapping it all up and making a video. I have not decided on going to shorter diameter wheels or not. But I will be going to AS (All Season) tires next. Several are candidates. Such as Hancook Ion AS, BRIDGESTONE POTENZA SPORT AS Ultra High Performance All-Season.
After trying everything other than wheels and tires, I've been experimenting with Apple Airpods Pro 2. They have good noise cancelling. They seem to get rid of what "noise" that remains that annoys me. Again, at this point it may be a problem that only a few of us have. But I think I have my own unique "final" solution as well.
To be continued ...
I believe it is suspension related. So I am in agreement with enemji on his comment above.
I also changed the shocks, which has improved the ride but that vibration remains. It's difficult to explain it, what it sounds and feels like. I think it exists in all vehicles but is largely masked by other noises. Now that all the other noises have been reduced in my car, only that pesky "vibration" remains. It's not tire balance. On smooth roads, it's absolutely quiet. But most roads have undulations, rough, older asphalt being the worst. That causes the suspension to work in a unique manner, very short, rapid movements up and down. I'm not talking about bigger bumps and dips. I think the suspension "sings" or oscillates naturally going up and down. It could be the shocks "switching" their resistance from up to down, and it could be the springs simply oscillating as the wheels move rapidly but very little up and down. I really don't know.
I "hear" and feel (barely feel) that vibration even going slowly on my dirt and crushed stone gravel driveway.
The sound and vibration seems to be "everywhere" in the car. Coming from no particular place. I've already done a lot of sound deadening and sound absorbing. It's not "tire noise" per se, anymore. It's more like a very small vibration. But enough that I find to be disturbing.
I do have noise sensitivity, so I'm struggling with how to present my findings in a wrap up comment and or video. Others may not have an issue with it. I was intentionally delaying posting any summary comments until I could figure it out more conclusively. My guess at the moment is that the vibration might not bother other people and they might find my car to be rather quiet now.
I've been giving thought about it and I now think the only way to practically reduce this sound/vibration and further reduce general and this specific "noise" is change of wheel size and tires. My performance model 3 has large diameter wheels and very short very stiff tires with virtually no absorption whatsoever (OEM Pirelli P Z). I notice as the tires wear, this issue I feel gets worse quite quickly as wear progresses. (I have 17,200 miles on these original tires) My guess is if we had no rubber, just steel wheels that noise/vibration would be incredibly loud but it would be the type that I have.
Once I get new tires, I'll feel better about wrapping it all up and making a video. I have not decided on going to shorter diameter wheels or not. But I will be going to AS (All Season) tires next. Several are candidates. Such as Hancook Ion AS, BRIDGESTONE POTENZA SPORT AS Ultra High Performance All-Season.
After trying everything other than wheels and tires, I've been experimenting with Apple Airpods Pro 2. They have good noise cancelling. They seem to get rid of what "noise" that remains that annoys me. Again, at this point it may be a problem that only a few of us have. But I think I have my own unique "final" solution as well.
To be continued ...
This is a hypothesis that I tested at great risk
. I parked my car next to the highway with traffic going 75mph. I then measured the road noise of the traffic zipping by and it was about 65db. Then i started driving on the same road and the db meter went to 73db.In my testing, the 18” Hankook Kinergy GT Kontrol are the quietest tires up until 18000 miles. Then they start making some noises.
Georgesb2
George Borrelli
Do you mean that the brand and model of the tire more quiet than other tire brands? Did you change from a larger wheel size at the same time? Can you be more specific? It's going to be a rather significant decision for me with wheels and tires. Thank you!
rotarypower101
Member
Interest here also, curious if anyone has seen a good thread on sound VS range and other considerations on this specific platform?
1. I started with the assumption based upon experience that a performance model will have stiffer suspension as well as tires with shorter and stiffer sidewall.
2. I have 2 x 2022 M3LR, 18” wheels. One came with Michelin MXM4 tires, the other with Hankook Kinergy GT. The difference in ride quality is astronomical. The Michelin is more crisp and more noisy. The Kinergy GT is normal but with a very compliant ride.
3. Just to rule out that maybe one car was built better than other, I replaced the Michelin with Hankook ION Evo AS with free replacement guarantee. It was better than Michelin but noisier than ther Kinergy GT. I then switched to the Kinergy GT and they are now both the same in terms of noise and ride quality.
I hope this helps.
Just purchased a 2020 Model 3 performance on Michelin Pilot Sport 4s 235/35 zr20 92y. I was pretty shocked by the road noise having come from a very quiet 2019 M3 LR. I've been trying to fix this road / wind noise all weekend. It was so bad that I've been on the the cusp of spending $1500 on a set of Hankook Ion EVO AS which are reviewed as being very quiet.
I ended up laying down double sided bubble wrap in the frunk, the lower trunk, between the main trunk mat and the sub trunk divider, and a double layer (folded over) along the length of the back floor board beneath the mat. This is all based on recommendations in this thread. I've also installed the DOTAATDW door seal kit purchased from Amazon. I'm happy to say the car feels much quieter! The door seal kit seems to have muted the wind noise coming from the frunk, and the bubble wrap has toned down the low frequency drone from the tires on the asphalt. It's still there but it feels like it's within tolerable levels. I'm also thinking about buying some quilted furniture pads and lining the sub trunk and frunk. Will update if I go ahead, but for now the car feels much better.
I ended up laying down double sided bubble wrap in the frunk, the lower trunk, between the main trunk mat and the sub trunk divider, and a double layer (folded over) along the length of the back floor board beneath the mat. This is all based on recommendations in this thread. I've also installed the DOTAATDW door seal kit purchased from Amazon. I'm happy to say the car feels much quieter! The door seal kit seems to have muted the wind noise coming from the frunk, and the bubble wrap has toned down the low frequency drone from the tires on the asphalt. It's still there but it feels like it's within tolerable levels. I'm also thinking about buying some quilted furniture pads and lining the sub trunk and frunk. Will update if I go ahead, but for now the car feels much better.
Georgesb2
George Borrelli
Road noise in my '22 Model 3 P.
Update: 9 March 2024
I'm done with the improvements and fairly pleased with the results, even after very long road trips. So here's my wrap up report, so to speak.
This past weekend, I just drove the car 24 hours total driving time, road trip.
This was after all the extensive road and wind noise work that I did. This was my second very long road trip since all my work, over the last several months.
This is what I found. The car is fairly quiet!
All the work I did was worth the effort. And a lot of effort and money it was.
I also recently learned that have a hearing problem in just one ear that recently got worse. Low frequency sounds and related vibrations tend to amplify in just that ear. So, to do a better test, I would periodically block just the one ear. (My other ear has perfect hearing. After hearing test, the ENT doctor stated that my left ear is as good as any twenty year old.) The car is quiet, surprisingly quiet! I can hear some rear window wind noise but not terrible, I haven't applied my shimming there yet. But what that showed me is that it's overall quiet enough now that the lower levels of wind noise are now more audible. In other words I never noticed wind in the back before. Overall the car noise is pretty low and pretty good.
But I've done a “big crap ton” (LOL) of work!
Here's a summary:
I first attacked wind noises.
I have a number of posts and videos on YouTube on that. The biggest improvement was talked about in my “shimming” video. I test the looseness of the rubber seal to the window and shim the rubber surround to tighten it up.
Then I went after interior noises.
I characterize it as “interior” noises intentionally. I think there are some vibrations and noises that get into the cockpit, no matter what you do. This is mostly due to the fact that the car's suspension is not isolated from the body. That lead me to dampen noises strategically, all over the car with a focus on the body parts that have any of the following characteristics: they tend to reverberate or resonate which I test by tapping, they have a high likelihood of getting into the cockpit. Then I did work to absorb remaining acoustic noises in the cockpit. I use the word “absorb” very intentionally and that necessitated a very different kind of material that I've seen nobody else use in their cars.
I read numerous posts, thanks to all. Then I went on my merry way.
I used stick-on dampening material, the best I could buy, Second Skins' Damplifier Pro, in numerous places. The intent was to stop resonance of certain susceptible and accessible metal parts. I did a lot.
Here's where I put it:
Back side hollows (the sub woofer area is in the one on the right) in the rear trunk.
Back trunk and sub trunk.
Horizontal support of the rear deck.
Rear trunk lid / hood.
Front frunk, underneath all the plastic.
All large plastic parts.
Front frunk lid / hood.
Inside the fenders, everywhere I could reach.
Rocker panels, located below the doors and along the length of the car. I pulled off the plastic rocker and did the length and some on the plastic.
Battery pack outer skin which nearly is completely covering the bottom of the car. I jacked up the car and tapped it to “test” it's resonance then stopped it with pieces of the aforementioned stick-on vibration dampening material.
Parts that I thought would resonate in all 4 wheel wells, including fender, and all parts that I could add a strip to.
Front doors, after removing the internal door panels. I did what I could access.
The metal cover below the rear seat.
And anywhere else I could intuit and access.
Then I drove it for some time.
I then decided noise still resonated and/or passed through, inside and there's nothing I could do to dampen, especially glass. So I had to switch from vibration dampening to sound absorbing approaches.
I bought enough sound absorption materials from “Second Skin”. I bought several thicknesses in rolls. The idea was to put it everywhere that I could to absorb noise. I was especially concerned about perceived noise coming into the car or resonating on the front windshield and roof glass as well as overall low frequency sounds entering from suspension natural vibrations.
I installed a custom cut piece and laid it over the entire dash.
I installed custom cut pieces between the ceiling glass and the ceiling aftermarket permanent shade interior glass ceiling covers I had bought which color matched the interior and I reinforced them to hold the weight of the added sound insulation better.
Finally, I put a 4” thick mat, custom cut, to completely cover the rear deck. I did this to absorb lower frequencies that still penetrated the cabin / cockpit. I selected materials based upon specifications I could obtain on what materials absorbed what frequencies the best. I measured the frequencies of the noise inside at several stages and then went after those.
I also tightened up my rear trunk lid, just in case that was creating pressure related vibrations. Which are notorious in the model Y.
Finally I change my shock absorbers (struts).
The Tesla Model 3 Performance has a stiff and “highly sprung” suspension. This is great for racing and I've tried it on the streets (safely of course). I decided to trade in some of that racing suspension for more smoothness and softness.
I picked the Tein adjustable shocks. I got all 4. they were reasonably priced. I got them from a family dealer who provides a level of personal support.
After lots of testing and changes to the adjustable settings, I ended up adjusting all 4 shocks to the softest settings.
The shocks did help some with noise and ride.
But they are not a panacea and they are a fair amount of labor to change and to tune. So it's of smaller benefit for the work but for a Performance suspension it is more meaningful. But in the end, for me, it was worth the money and the effort. It also took some of the harshness shock out of the ride which I find a very important improvement for long trips.
I have not changed the tires yet.
I have the original OEM Pirelli P Zero summer performance tires.
Update: 9 March 2024
I'm done with the improvements and fairly pleased with the results, even after very long road trips. So here's my wrap up report, so to speak.
This past weekend, I just drove the car 24 hours total driving time, road trip.
This was after all the extensive road and wind noise work that I did. This was my second very long road trip since all my work, over the last several months.
This is what I found. The car is fairly quiet!
All the work I did was worth the effort. And a lot of effort and money it was.
I also recently learned that have a hearing problem in just one ear that recently got worse. Low frequency sounds and related vibrations tend to amplify in just that ear. So, to do a better test, I would periodically block just the one ear. (My other ear has perfect hearing. After hearing test, the ENT doctor stated that my left ear is as good as any twenty year old.) The car is quiet, surprisingly quiet! I can hear some rear window wind noise but not terrible, I haven't applied my shimming there yet. But what that showed me is that it's overall quiet enough now that the lower levels of wind noise are now more audible. In other words I never noticed wind in the back before. Overall the car noise is pretty low and pretty good.
But I've done a “big crap ton” (LOL) of work!
Here's a summary:
I first attacked wind noises.
I have a number of posts and videos on YouTube on that. The biggest improvement was talked about in my “shimming” video. I test the looseness of the rubber seal to the window and shim the rubber surround to tighten it up.
Then I went after interior noises.
I characterize it as “interior” noises intentionally. I think there are some vibrations and noises that get into the cockpit, no matter what you do. This is mostly due to the fact that the car's suspension is not isolated from the body. That lead me to dampen noises strategically, all over the car with a focus on the body parts that have any of the following characteristics: they tend to reverberate or resonate which I test by tapping, they have a high likelihood of getting into the cockpit. Then I did work to absorb remaining acoustic noises in the cockpit. I use the word “absorb” very intentionally and that necessitated a very different kind of material that I've seen nobody else use in their cars.
I read numerous posts, thanks to all. Then I went on my merry way.
I used stick-on dampening material, the best I could buy, Second Skins' Damplifier Pro, in numerous places. The intent was to stop resonance of certain susceptible and accessible metal parts. I did a lot.
Here's where I put it:
Back side hollows (the sub woofer area is in the one on the right) in the rear trunk.
Back trunk and sub trunk.
Horizontal support of the rear deck.
Rear trunk lid / hood.
Front frunk, underneath all the plastic.
All large plastic parts.
Front frunk lid / hood.
Inside the fenders, everywhere I could reach.
Rocker panels, located below the doors and along the length of the car. I pulled off the plastic rocker and did the length and some on the plastic.
Battery pack outer skin which nearly is completely covering the bottom of the car. I jacked up the car and tapped it to “test” it's resonance then stopped it with pieces of the aforementioned stick-on vibration dampening material.
Parts that I thought would resonate in all 4 wheel wells, including fender, and all parts that I could add a strip to.
Front doors, after removing the internal door panels. I did what I could access.
The metal cover below the rear seat.
And anywhere else I could intuit and access.
Then I drove it for some time.
I then decided noise still resonated and/or passed through, inside and there's nothing I could do to dampen, especially glass. So I had to switch from vibration dampening to sound absorbing approaches.
I bought enough sound absorption materials from “Second Skin”. I bought several thicknesses in rolls. The idea was to put it everywhere that I could to absorb noise. I was especially concerned about perceived noise coming into the car or resonating on the front windshield and roof glass as well as overall low frequency sounds entering from suspension natural vibrations.
I installed a custom cut piece and laid it over the entire dash.
I installed custom cut pieces between the ceiling glass and the ceiling aftermarket permanent shade interior glass ceiling covers I had bought which color matched the interior and I reinforced them to hold the weight of the added sound insulation better.
Finally, I put a 4” thick mat, custom cut, to completely cover the rear deck. I did this to absorb lower frequencies that still penetrated the cabin / cockpit. I selected materials based upon specifications I could obtain on what materials absorbed what frequencies the best. I measured the frequencies of the noise inside at several stages and then went after those.
I also tightened up my rear trunk lid, just in case that was creating pressure related vibrations. Which are notorious in the model Y.
Finally I change my shock absorbers (struts).
The Tesla Model 3 Performance has a stiff and “highly sprung” suspension. This is great for racing and I've tried it on the streets (safely of course). I decided to trade in some of that racing suspension for more smoothness and softness.
I picked the Tein adjustable shocks. I got all 4. they were reasonably priced. I got them from a family dealer who provides a level of personal support.
After lots of testing and changes to the adjustable settings, I ended up adjusting all 4 shocks to the softest settings.
The shocks did help some with noise and ride.
But they are not a panacea and they are a fair amount of labor to change and to tune. So it's of smaller benefit for the work but for a Performance suspension it is more meaningful. But in the end, for me, it was worth the money and the effort. It also took some of the harshness shock out of the ride which I find a very important improvement for long trips.
I have not changed the tires yet.
I have the original OEM Pirelli P Zero summer performance tires.
Last edited:
My second M3LR came standard with 18” Kinergy GT and after 21,000 miles it has an avg 236 Wh/mi
What specifically is the lubricating product you used for the rubber gaskets around the doors and windows?
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