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Model 3 SR+ LFP Battery Range, Degradation, etc Discussion

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Good info. I've always wondered how does SMT determine what mileage is a discharge cycle? When you do the math, it's 186miles/cycle.

Theres a good explanation on the net by the prople behind SMT about this. I’ll try to dig it up.

Edit:
scan my tesla - Known inaccuracies
  • Charging cycles, discharge cycles
These are calculated from 'Total charge' divided by 'Nominal full pack'. That means, when the car is new, it could be pretty accurate, but as your 'Nominal full pack' capacity is sinking/changing, these will rise more than the actual number of full charges. In order to calc this properly we should have had something like an average pack capacity since the car was new, which we don't have. Also, the buffer is not included.

End edit.

Cycle number is set by a calculation of the total kWh charged / discharged divided by the NFP.

The difference in charged / discharged seems to be about the same for most people.
The difference should/could be self discharge, balancing losses and maybe heat losses.

So if the CAC / NFP increases much the number of cycles go down.
 
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Ok uodate from my side I have reached 10000km. I have owned the SR+ LFP for about 2.5 months now. My range is now 433km @ 100% charge. At the time I got the car it was 438km @100% so I have lost 5km till now. I charge 100% at least 3 times a week with nema 14-50 at home. Have done a bunch of road trips with tesla supercharging and L2 charge points.
It’s interesting that the degradation seems to be almost exactly the same for everybody. Mine is also 433km at 9000km and I’ve seen a lot of people here report the same. That’s promising data considering everybody has different charging habits, which suggests to me that the LFP is indeed very versatile and robust.
 
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It’s interesting that the degradation seems to be almost exactly the same for everybody. Mine is also 433km at 9000km and I’ve seen a lot of people here report the same. That’s promising data considering everybody has different charging habits, which suggests to me that the LFP is indeed very versatile and robust.
Mine around 9000 km now shows 430 km at 100% . ~ 2 or 3 km is really nothing. I am okay with that. I also think its not really a degradation just need BMS rebalance.
 
I have a 2022 RWD LFP at 8434km, started at 439km new, my 100% only reads 426km now. It was 428km in June
Initially did a lot of supercharging, due to credits, to 80% and finishing with Lvl1 or 2 to 100%
Now mostly Level 2 charging to 100% once every 2 weeks at most.
Never let my SOC go below 20%, I don't have a home charger and don't use sentry at home, so it does go to deep sleep. Not sure what i'm doing wrong charging habit wise.
Lifetime wh/km is about 140ish. I thought the summer efficiency would bring my range estimate back but it just keeps getting a little lower.
 
I have a 2022 RWD LFP at 8434km, started at 439km new, my 100% only reads 426km now. It was 428km in June
Initially did a lot of supercharging, due to credits, to 80% and finishing with Lvl1 or 2 to 100%
Now mostly Level 2 charging to 100% once every 2 weeks at most.
Never let my SOC go below 20%, I don't have a home charger and don't use sentry at home, so it does go to deep sleep. Not sure what i'm doing wrong charging habit wise.
Lifetime wh/km is about 140ish. I thought the summer efficiency would bring my range estimate back but it just keeps getting a little lower.
Nobody really knows how that algorithm works or how accurate it really is. I would use it in conjunction with SMT or Tessie to get a better idea of your battery health. It could randomly go back up to 430+km in the future, who knows.

If you are really worried, there are ways to calibrate the BMS that involve leaving the car at 5% overnight and then back up to 100%, but I don't know much about that as I haven't felt the need to do it. Could be an option for you though, since you are a bit of an outlier on degradation (although not by much!).
 
I have a 2022 RWD LFP at 8434km, started at 439km new, my 100% only reads 426km now. It was 428km in June
Initially did a lot of supercharging, due to credits, to 80% and finishing with Lvl1 or 2 to 100%
Now mostly Level 2 charging to 100% once every 2 weeks at most.
Never let my SOC go below 20%, I don't have a home charger and don't use sentry at home, so it does go to deep sleep. Not sure what i'm doing wrong charging habit wise.
Lifetime wh/km is about 140ish. I thought the summer efficiency would bring my range estimate back but it just keeps getting a little lower.

There seem to be a thinking that the new LFP batteries should not degrade.

- LFP degrade less than NCA/NMC specially when doing large cy les with 100 to 0% cycles. They are relatively non-sensitive to large cycles (which is good as smaller batteries most often need to use bigger cycles).

- ALL LFP that have been tested in research have about the same behavior for calendar aging. We do not know for sure as the latest tesla LFP’s of course have not dome a two year calendar sging test yet. We can assume that the new LFPs also suffer from calendar aging. Maybe slightly reduced but it modt certain still eats from batteries.
As LFPs is quite non sensitive to cycles and can do a lot of them, we will not see much degradation from the cycles( or mealsge of the car). The cars age, environment with ambient temperatures and probably the SOC also will be the factors deciding the degradation tempo.

Tesla need owners of LFP Cars to charge to 100% regularly to help the car to keep track of the energy content in the battery. There is otherwise a risk that the car/BMS looses track of the actual SOC, thinking the car has more remaining than it actually has and getting stranded as a result.
This is the real reason that Tesla recommends charging to 100%. The reason is not that the battery has the lowest degradation if charged to 100%.

Calendar aging will be the biggest factor for degradation and real range loss. After the first year of owning a LFP Tesla there will be a range loss and the absolute main part will be due to calendar aging (as cycles, even big cycles to 100% cause very little wear).

There is no danger going below 20%.
In fact the battery wear the least if it is at low SOC ( down to 0%) as calendar aging is lower the lower the SOC is. The ”below 20% is a forum or internet myth, that many people bought.
 
Nobody really knows how that algorithm works or how accurate it really is. I would use it in conjunction with SMT or Tessie to get a better idea of your battery health.

SMT and teslafi and also Teslalogger get the range information or nominal capacity from the BMS. The BMS can be wrong by a fairly big number. I guess this is true for Tessie as well.
My car (not a LFP but the capacity calcs should work about the same way) was at 81.0 kWh (Nominal full pack), during a short period, short driving range) the NFP dropped to 77.0 kWh. It still is around 77kWh. A degradation test by driving the car from 100 to 0% showed about 79kWh capacity yesterday. The BMS was off by 2kWh upwards and then shortly after off by 2kWh under estimate.
Thats about 12 km fault in both ways from the real capacity.

Also, my car have always got a nominal remaining that is 0.4-0.5kWh higher than the nominal full pack value. This means that the range at full charge always has been about 3km or 2miles higher than the NFP implies.

I would guess that the capacity calculation in a LFP car has about the same shortcommings as a Tesla with LR/P batteries. We should not be too upset about range numbers or capacity numbers we see in tessie/teslafi or with SMT, as they might be fairly off.
 
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Never let my SOC go below 20% [...] Not sure what i'm doing wrong charging habit wise.
This is probably what you're doing wrong. As @AAKEE mentioned, low SOC is better for calendar aging of all lithium batteries. Additionally, how would the BMS know your true capacity if it never sees the bottom of the pack? The voltage curve is extremely flat until sub 20% SOC (15% if accounting for battery reserve). Discharging deep won't physically improve your battery right now but would help recalibrate the BMS. Also you don't need to worry about supercharging LFP.
 
This is probably what you're doing wrong. As @AAKEE mentioned, low SOC is better for calendar aging of all lithium batteries. Additionally, how would the BMS know your true capacity if it never sees the bottom of the pack? The voltage curve is extremely flat until sub 20% SOC (15% if accounting for battery reserve). Discharging deep won't physically improve your battery right now but would help recalibrate the BMS. Also you don't need to worry about supercharging LFP.
Shouldn't charging to 100% calibrate the BMS? It knows where full is and where empty is, I thought the problem is between ~20% and ~95% where the curve is very flat, so if you always stay in that range then it gets confused. Someone here mentioned (it might have bee you?) that either going above 95% or below 20% approx should help calibrate the BMS. I guess that explains why some cars teleport from 30% to 15% etc if the BMS isn't accurate.

My point is: is it necessary to run below 20% if you regularly charge to 100%? I only run below 20% on road trips, it just isn't practical for normal driving around town.
 
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My point is: is it necessary to run below 20% if you regularly charge to 100%?
In short, no, but it's complicated. To give some background, most BMS are pretty simple - they measure the voltage which is reliable for near 100% and 0%, and measure the energy consumed for estimating the 20-95% (LFP). If you always charge to 100% without ever going below 20%, there's no risk of jumping from 30% to 15% because the BMS can accurately subtract how much energy you used from the "full pack capacity". If you stay in 20-80% only for an extended period of time, it can jump large % due to accumulated errors in electron counting (usually not accurately measuring "vampire" drain). In OP's case seeing "3%" degradation, potentially the BMS could be 1-2% off because it doesn't know exactly where empty is and how much degradation has happened. So in your worst case scenario it will jump from 15% to 13%, which is not a big deal.

Reaching 100% or 0% should both prevent BMS drift.
100-0% cycle does a full capacity calibration.
 
That's too bad, it would've been a nice surprise. I wonder why they were able to give us Monroney stickers with 262 miles listed. In any event, it makes degradation that much more critical if we rule out a range boost from a software update.
The EPA site says 263 miles Total Range. Meaning city and hwy. It says 150 mpgE for the city and also the hwy milage. Pay attention to the E in MPGE.

The site says 133 HWY mpgE.

The EPA site also says one gallon of gasoline equals 33.7 kwh So, you divide 33.7 into the battery capacity of your model car then multiply that by 133 and the result is what you get for HWY milage. Do the same with city, but who cares anyway. Your near home and can charge up there anytime.

I don't know the batt capacity of your car.

On a 22 S Model standard model, I assume it has a 100 kwh battery so 33.7 into 100 gives me 2.97 times a hwy range of 115 miles resulting in 341 miles of HWY range IF I charged to 100 % and then drove to zero.........something I'll never do because of battery degradation. Even then I find drivng a 22 S Model I get just 30 miles for each ten % of battery capacity. Time and time again driving at 75 mph on interstates Never drive a car below the posted speed limit never ever.

An S Model will NOT get 405 miles of range on interstate speeds of 75 mph. Maybe city plus hwy mixed drivng, becase you should get better milage in the city vs hwy.
 
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Edit: thought I posted this in the charging sub, sorry Mods.

I know recommendation for LFP is to charge to 100% as often as possible, but like every single night when I only use 3-5% battery? My situation:

Work out of town, spend my days off at home, example:

Friday: Leave home at 100% and drive 135 miles to where I stay while working
Saturday: 20 miles round trip to work
Sunday: 20 miles round trip to work
Monday: 20 miles round trip to work
Tuesday: Drive 135 miles home.

On Friday night I will charge up to 100%, but should I plug in and charge to 100% Saturday, Sunday, and Monday as well? Or just let the battery discharge during those few days?
 
Edit: thought I posted this in the charging sub, sorry Mods.

I know recommendation for LFP is to charge to 100% as often as possible, but like every single night when I only use 3-5% battery? My situation:

Work out of town, spend my days off at home, example:

Friday: Leave home at 100% and drive 135 miles to where I stay while working
Saturday: 20 miles round trip to work
Sunday: 20 miles round trip to work
Monday: 20 miles round trip to work
Tuesday: Drive 135 miles home.

On Friday night I will charge up to 100%, but should I plug in and charge to 100% Saturday, Sunday, and Monday as well? Or just let the battery discharge during those few days?
I accidentally posted this as a thread in the general Model 3 sub