Model 3 SR+ Mileage at Full Charge

[Turlejay]

I'm also not sure how folks who have been driving ICE vehicles their entire lives don't realize the same variables exist for gas mileage. If I do 80mph for an hour I will get less mpg then if I do 60. Most cars now give instant MPG on the dash, teslas do the equivalent.

 

[skatefriday]

Where exactly did I mention driving behavior? I meant nothing of the sort.

If the guess you specified is a guess of battery capacity, then, right, you didn't refer to driving behavior. The term in your original reply was ambiguous.

That said, it would behoove Tesla to be a bit more transparent about how the BMS is determining capacity. There's a lot of voodoo out there surrounding this.

 

[skatefriday]

I'm also not sure how folks who have been driving ICE vehicles their entire lives don't realize the same variables exist for gas mileage. If I do 80mph for an hour I will get less mpg then if I do 60. Most cars now give instant MPG on the dash, teslas do the equivalent.

Sigh. Again. This is not how the range calculation works on the main screen. It's exactly how the range works on the Consumption screen, and on the Trip screen if you have a destination in the nav, but NOT on the main screen.

 

[Turlejay]

Sigh. Again. This is not how the range calculation works on the main screen. It's exactly how the range works on the Consumption screen, and on the Trip screen if you have a destination in the nav, but NOT on the main screen.

I agree with you . That's exactly what I meant. Ice cars have a gas gauge and miles to empty on the dash. Teslas have percentage or miles remaining. Depending on many variables these are estimations. The only absolute is how much power or gas is left, not how its used

 

[skatefriday]

I agree with you . That's exactly what I meant. Ice cars have a gas gauge and miles to empty on the dash. Teslas have percentage or miles remaining. Depending on many variables these are estimations. The only absolute is how much power or gas is left, not how its used

Right. The difference is an ICE vehicle's gas tank doesn't shrink over time. If I buy a car with 12 gallon tank it's still a 12 gallon tank 5 years from now. I bought a Tesla that advertised a 54kWh battery and off the lot it was almost 3% below that, and it's now almost 10% below after only 4 months of ownership.

When Tesla's marketing literature says you should expect only 5 to 6% over the lifetime of the car I'm just saying I lost the lottery.

I still love the car, and every time I get into my ICE vehicle I feel like I'm driving in the past. I just wish that Tesla would do a better job of ensuring their marketing literature reflects reality for all of their owners, not just those that won the battery lottery.

 

[iamnid]

Nice. I’m assuming this is a 2020 Model?

When you say “charge to 90% every night” - are you charging to 90% immediately after you get home, or are you letting the car sit and then charge early I’m the morning/later time?

Also, if you don’t mind sharing, what is your daily commute distance?

It's getting charged as soon as it gets home. Daily commute varies wildly. There are days when I just go to the office and back (rare) which is about 10 miles. Most days it's about 150-175 miles -- that's why I have 4,000 miles in a little over a month. Yes, it's a 2020 model.

 

[Turlejay]

Right. The difference is an ICE vehicle's gas tank doesn't shrink over time. If I buy a car with 12 gallon tank it's still a 12 gallon tank 5 years from now. I bought a Tesla that advertised a 54kWh battery and off the lot it was almost 3% below that, and it's now almost 10% below after only 4 months of ownership.

When Tesla's marketing literature says you should expect only 5 to 6% over the lifetime of the car I'm just saying I lost the lottery.

I still love the car, and every time I get into my ICE vehicle I feel like I'm driving in the past. I just wish that Tesla would do a better job of ensuring their marketing literature reflects reality for all of their owners, not just those that won the battery lottery.

This is true and I'd be upset. However while your tank still stays the same size, other parts on the car that a Tesla doesn't have will degrade over time causing less "range". In this case though it shouldn't be a lottery and I'd expect a solution from Tesla if I were you.

 

[iamnid]

Right. The difference is an ICE vehicle's gas tank doesn't shrink over time. If I buy a car with 12 gallon tank it's still a 12 gallon tank 5 years from now. I bought a Tesla that advertised a 54kWh battery and off the lot it was almost 3% below that, and it's now almost 10% below after only 4 months of ownership.

When Tesla's marketing literature says you should expect only 5 to 6% over the lifetime of the car I'm just saying I lost the lottery.

I still love the car, and every time I get into my ICE vehicle I feel like I'm driving in the past. I just wish that Tesla would do a better job of ensuring their marketing literature reflects reality for all of their owners, not just those that won the battery lottery.

I suspect you haven't really lost that range it's just that the display is showing less mileage for some reason - you can probably still drive as far as you could when you first got it.

 

[pl8dlikafiddle]

I do the same thing. Everyone needs to stop overthinking it. Let the car do the work. I came from a volt so I guess I have a little more knowledge than most about electric cars, but still, just plug it and and don’t worry about it. You can easily beat the rated range. It’s just a arbitrary number.

It’s not an arbitrary number. It has a direct relationship with the kWh the BMS believes is available.

This is not about driving behavior beating the rated range. It’s about actual calculated capacity. If you don’t know the difference, you don’t know as much as you think you do.

 

[pl8dlikafiddle]

I suspect you haven't really lost that range it's just that the display is showing less mileage for some reason - you can probably still drive as far as you could when you first got it.

That’s exactly the issue - your suspicion is as good as the flip side that the capacity is actually gone.

No one knows. All we can do as owners and forum members is report our experience compare notes.

 

[coconutboy84]

It’s not an arbitrary number. It has a direct relationship with the kWh the BMS believes is available.

This is not about driving behavior beating the rated range. It’s about actual calculated capacity. If you don’t know the difference, you don’t know as much as you think you do.

Sigh....ok bud.

 

[skatefriday]

I suspect you haven't really lost that range it's just that the display is showing less mileage for some reason - you can probably still drive as far as you could when you first got it.

"For some reason." - Like actual capacity loss, or the BMS not being able to account for actual capacity, or balancing, or charge to some percentage, or charge to 100% and then drive continuously down to 5%, or pick whichever hypothesis/solution supports whatever you want to believe.

And therein lies the voodoo that some of us would like Tesla to definitively dispel, or at least give me access to their diagnostic data on the battery that I own.

 

[Eagledon]

Consider yourself lucky. Mine says 220 miles at 100%, although I've never charged it 100%. I have an August or September build (purchased from existing inventory in late Sept).

I have never got a full 240. I took it to the SC the first week and they ran diags on it and said I was right at the fleet average. To which I said, "So you are comparing me to cars that have been on the road for 12+ months?" Asked to see their data, but of course they declined.

I've resigned myself to just getting unlucky in the battery lottery, but this really should be something Tesla addresses. If they advertise 240 you should get 240 off the lot. They could build a small buffer into the batteries, that is software locked to 240, and all these threads would be immediately obsolete.

I wonder if there is something about late summer, early fall battery packs?

Just put it on the charger here in LA. Battery is extremely cold. Only getting 2 miles per hour. Presumably it's dumping the rest of the 240v at 16A into heat.

Same for me. August SR+ buid purchased in Sept. Full charge 100% I see 220 miles as well.

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

Sigh....ok bud.

There is plenty of data out there from people with ScanMyTesla, etc, showing that indeed that rated range number is directly related to what the BMS thinks is the kWh remaining (see a post from earlier today).

Furthermore, not only does the BMS think this energy is reduced over time (dramatically in some cases), people who carefully monitor the trip meter (accounting correctly for any losses while in park which are not counted) see that on these vehicles, the total kWh available per the trip meter indeed are very well correlated to that range number (the Wh per rated mile is roughly a constant). In the cases where it is not, the BMS adjusts and the rated range numbers adjust - but in most cases these variations & adjustments are small.

So, those two pieces of information (which you can verify yourself; you do not have to and definitely should not believe me!) indicate that there is a very direct correlation between the rated range number and how far you can travel, for a given controlled trip & specific conditions. Of course environmental factors add huge variability on top of that, but that's a totally separate topic; it's completely unrelated (those factors just affect the consumption rate and the range, which is a different topic). The OP here is not discussing range or anything about how far you can travel; they're talking about energy available.

The number is the SoC multiplied by the rated wh/mile and represents ideal capacity

You're absolutely correct about what you're saying about the capacity here in general, but a slight correction here: The rated miles/capacity available are not related to the SoC % by a constant. If it were, then the two quantities, SoC% and rated miles, would be equivalent & equally useful.

What I am sure you meant was that:

kWhAvailAbove0% = SoC%*RatedRange@100%* Constant (Wh/rmi) (This constant is 209Wh/rmi, 4.5% less than 219Wh/rmi, for a 2019 SR+ (211Wh/rmi / 201Wh/rmi for a 2020 SR+) - the 4.5% difference is due to the buffer which is not included in this result as it is below 0%)

So very close to what you said, but just correcting that the quantity: (Rated Range @ 100% (rmi) * Constant (Wh/rmi) ) is not a constant - which was your whole point. Rated Range reduces over time, and thus for a given SoC%, your available energy at that SoC is reduced.

Final addendum - for extremely healthy batteries (brand new), there may be deviations from these formulas (they may underpredict capacity). But once you start seeing loss of rated miles relative to new, these formulas should work.

 

[coconutboy84]

No no I get how the car calculates the capacity in the battery and all, I’m just saying it’s still very flawed and imprecise. So people shouldn’t worry about the full range not showing. It’s not perfect and best guess. What I’m saying is stop obsessing about omg I lost two miles. Lol

 

[TomB985]

No no I get how the car calculates the capacity in the battery and all, I’m just saying it’s still very flawed and imprecise. So people shouldn’t worry about the full range not showing. It’s not perfect and best guess. What I’m saying is stop obsessing about omg I lost two miles. Lol

Yes. This exactly. State of charge is not an exact science, and there is a little variability.

Just plug the thing in and drive it. I’d be concerned if I saw a continuous or sudden drop, but otherwise I wouldn’t be concerned.

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

So people shouldn’t worry about the full range not showing. It’s not perfect and best guess. What I’m saying is stop obsessing about omg I lost two miles. Lol

State of charge is not an exact science, and there is a little variability.

Sure. Of course it is an estimate. But it is indeed correlated with available energy. I've always found the state of charge estimator to be EXTREMELY linear and very "on the money" - which is great. You do NOT want a state of charge estimation to be off otherwise it makes it impossible to plan a trip with an arrival at ~5-10% SoC. And Tesla's SoC estimation appears to be extremely good.

In any case, saying "don't worry about it" to someone who has lost 10% of their estimated capacity in less than 6 months when they were under the (mistaken) impression that they would be looking at more like 5% over the course of years, is a little lacking in empathy. Sure, 248 miles instead of 250 miles? Don't worry about it. 230 out of 250 on a vehicle that's 4 months old? I'd be pretty annoyed. Personally my battery has been tracking at a "normal" rate. Now down to 300 rated miles out of 310; likely about 6% (73.5kWh out of 78kWh) estimated capacity loss over 14 months. Not worried about it. I know people who have similar age vehicles in the same environment at over 10% capacity loss - that would start to be annoying, though I imagine I'll get there in a year or two. I just would not want to be there now.

It's true that it is only an issue (for me) for road trips. I basically just ignore it the rest of the time.

 

[Fadiawesome]

No no I get how the car calculates the capacity in the battery and all, I’m just saying it’s still very flawed and imprecise. So people shouldn’t worry about the full range not showing. It’s not perfect and best guess. What I’m saying is stop obsessing about omg I lost two miles. Lol

I get what you're saying, but the thing is, I haven't lost 2 miles. I've lost 22 miles, even after following proper charging habits. When i once charged up my battery and got down to about 5%(roadtrip), it only showed 41kwh used, which is way less than the sr+ usable 50kwh. even acounting for the 5% remaining, the degregaton, and the buffer, there is still a lot of batter left unaccounted for,which can only mean more deegation in a short amount of time, which is concerning.

 

[Wennfred]

2019 March build, SR+ charge to 90% daily to 215 miles and at 100% 239-240 miles. Seems the OP needs to recalibrate the battery by taking it down to 10% and back up to 100% at least 2 or 3 times. Give this a try it should correct that range lost.

Fred

 

[hungryjonjon]

Charged to 100% today at the office, 226 miles. May 2019 delivery.