High Mileage Rental 3

[samuelffrancis]

I know there's a lot of talk about this these days, so I apologize if this is redundant, but long story short:
Rental Agencies are selling a lot of their M3 inventory.
A lot of that inventory has landed at a really friendly and transparent used dealer near us that we trust and like.
We're finally in a position (financially) to make the jump. (especially with the used tax credit)

Only hesitation is the mileage. We're looking at a few 2022 LR AWD M3s with clean titles and good conditions. Both get up to over 300 miles of range on a max charge BUT the elephant in the room is that both have roughly 114,000 and 110,000 miles on em.

That'd put them at around 55-57K miles a year........ over 5 TIMES what the average American does. Anyways, enough of the obvious. I guess I'm looking for other M3 owners that have high mileage in a short amount of time to share your experience and what your journey has been like. Any other M3 owners who have specifically picked up a previously rented one recently as well?

Thanks

 

[KenC]

Interesting question. I don't know the answer, but even if there are owners with high mileage in a short time, is the driving similar? I mean, most owners to put on that mileage would typically have a long commute? Mostly highway miles? Those are less impactful than lots of short trips. I'd guess rental cars would be something of the opposite, lots of short trips, but I could be wrong.

I've taken over 5yrs to drive just 61k miles, and the car feels pretty much like when it was new; the suspension still feels nice and tight. I'd think if the cars look undamaged, and drive well, rotors look good, no squeaking in the suspension, they might be a decent value. I've never bought a used car, though.

 

[launchd]

Out of curiosity, what is the dealer asking for them?

 

[afadeev]

Rental Agencies are selling a lot of their M3 inventory.
[...]Only hesitation is the mileage. We're looking at a few 2022 LR AWD M3s with clean titles and good conditions.

Good condition how?
Have you got inside the cars to check them out first-hand?
I've never been in a rental car with 50+K miles on them that was anything other than beat to hell. Never mind 110+K mile samples!

Both get up to over 300 miles of range on a max charge BUT the elephant in the room is that both have roughly 114,000 and 110,000 miles on em.

The range was never truly 300 miles when new. Tesla is notorious for grossly over-estimating the range.
The real question is how much battery degradation have these samples occulated after 110+K miles and (110,000/~150 == 733 charge cycles)?!
The second thing I would test (after checking interior condition) is find a way to run battery health test:

I guess I'm looking for other M3 owners that have high mileage in a short amount of time to share your experience and what your journey has been like.

My TM3P has 65K miles. The suspension (shocks in particular) is done for.
New shocks and springs are in the basement, waiting to be installed as soon as the weather warms up and I have the free time.
The front upper control arms wore off, and got replaced at ~35K miles. They are starting to squeak again, when cold. I expect needing to install another set in the near future.

My residual value of my car is down to $21,600 (as estimated by Carvana).
Unless your used samples have 85+% battery capacity and are priced below $10K, I would not touch them.

HTH,
a

 

[804son]

You can get a quick estimate of how much EPA range is left on the vehicle, by multiplying the Miles EPA range (main screen Miles number)\percentage (click on the Miles to get to percent). take the original EPA number, subtract your calculate EPA range, that's at least an estimate of the range loss to degradation. There's some round error depending on state of charge, etc.... but it's an idea. Like others mentioned EPA is a perfect conditions, slow speed number and is not usually obtained in the real world.

 

[samuelffrancis]

Good condition how?
Have you got inside the cars to check them out first-hand?
I've never been in a rental car with 50+K miles on them that was anything other than beat to hell. Never mind 110+K mile samples!



The range was never truly 300 miles when new. Tesla is notorious for grossly over-estimating the range.
The real question is how much battery degradation have these samples occulated after 110+K miles and (110,000/~150 == 733 charge cycles)?!
The second thing I would test (after checking interior condition) is find a way to run battery health test:

My TM3P has 65K miles. The suspension (shocks in particular) is done for.
New shocks and springs are in the basement, waiting to be installed as soon as the weather warms up and I have the free time.
The front upper control arms wore off, and got replaced at ~35K miles. They are starting to squeak again, when cold. I expect needing to install another set in the near future.

My residual value of my car is down to $21,600 (as estimated by Carvana).
Unless your used samples have 85+% battery capacity and are priced below $10K, I would not touch them.

HTH,
a

That's it. The interior was in good condition. Especially considering it was a rental with over 100k miles on it. It didn't look "beat to hell".......... drove and handled absolutely fine. Accelerated and braked just great. Everything worked nicely when my wife and I took them out to test.

Also 2022 LR AWD had an original EPA estimate of 358 miles of range...... I am extremely well aware that Tesla is very overly optimistic about range estimates, but all I was saying is that given that many miles (and degradation) it's still getting over 310. Speaking of the battery, you're absolutely right. That's the biggest concern for sure. And THANK YOU for the battery health test! I was completely unaware of such a feature and will do this to any potential Tesla we get into. Much appreciated

Thank you for sharing what your experience has been. It's really important to me to hear what other people have dealt with.

Cheers!

 

[samuelffrancis]

Out of curiosity, what is the dealer asking for them?

Sorry, left that out haha. I think the 110k mile one after the tax credit would be like $18,500 and the 114k mile one would be like $17,500.

I'm seeing some other 2022s or 2019s that are also LR AWD and are only in the 80Ks of miles for similar prices..... and given what @afadeev has advised, I'll be looking closer at those ones. I know mileage isn't the same with EVs but it can't be disregarded as much as I had originally thought.

Thanks again everyone. Will keep you posted.

 

[cmaster]

I probably don't recommend buying a Model 3 at high mileage. Why!?

 

[samuelffrancis]

I probably don't recommend buying a Model 3 at high mileage. Why!?

Woof haha. That would suck for sure.

 

[804son]

That's it. The interior was in good condition. Especially considering it was a rental with over 100k miles on it. It didn't look "beat to hell".......... drove and handled absolutely fine. Accelerated and braked just great. Everything worked nicely when my wife and I took them out to test.

Also 2022 LR AWD had an original EPA estimate of 358 miles of range...... I am extremely well aware that Tesla is very overly optimistic about range estimates, but all I was saying is that given that many miles (and degradation) it's still getting over 310. Speaking of the battery, you're absolutely right. That's the biggest concern for sure. And THANK YOU for the battery health test! I was completely unaware of such a feature and will do this to any potential Tesla we get into. Much appreciated

Thank you for sharing what your experience has been. It's really important to me to hear what other people have dealt with.

Cheers!

The Battery Health Test isn't going to do you any good. Hertz and literally no one else is going to let you hook up the vehicle to a 240V charger, with less than 50% SOC, let the test drain it to 0%, and charge it back up to 100%. Which could take up to 24 hrs. All to get you some nebulous percentage number, that doesn't directly correlate to degradation. No one is even sure what it's measuring.

 

[samuelffrancis]

The Battery Health Test isn't going to do you any good. Hertz and literally no one else is going to let you hook up the vehicle to a 240V charger, with less than 50% SOC, let the test drain it to 0%, and charge it back up to 100%. Which could take up to 24 hrs. All to get you some nebulous percentage number, that doesn't directly correlate to degradation. No one is even sure what it's measuring.

Yeah I just watched the video and came to the same conclusion lol. I'm not gunna have that luxury at all with any of the ones we're lookin' at.

 

[samuelffrancis]

You guys think same trim M3 but like a 2021 or a 2019 at 80K miles (ish) for the same price would be a safer bet to get into? Or should we avoid something like that as well?

 

[Foxsbiscuits]

I bought a 90k LR 2020 model because it was super cheap and good condition. Cost me £23.5k as opposed to the average £29k I was seeing. Previous owner probably had a long commute or drove for work so ran it up and down motorways. Bumper, bonnet, sides are speckled and rashed but not that noticeable. I've already racked up worse marks on my local roads and have made a good job of repairing them myself, especially the rash.

My battery has 9% degradation. I don't find this a problem, you're stopping a couple times to charge on a long route anyway. I mean my alloys alone supposedly knock off 10% compared to capped 18s and the other day on a long drive a strong wind in the wrong direction took 10% off.

People on this forum mention suspension issues after high miles. I don't know if mine is good/bad because I don't have a comparison but I find it drives phenomenally and takes speed bumps like a champ, also no noises. Maybe the suspension has already been replaced, we don't get a full service history because of data protection which is a bit annoying for stuff like this.

I do regret not getting a heated steering wheel but didn't want to pay at least £3k for it in the market at the time.
I don't regret no heat pump, electric boot, double glazed windows, black trim.

I wasn't afraid of a high mileage Tesla. I suppose only time will tell but I'm confident in this decision. Still have up to 120k/8 years on battery and drivetrain warranty, my annual mileage is less than 9k.

 

[cmaster]

The suspension issues are common. Car is heavier than ICE car of the same dimension. And, the suspension of the Model 3/Y isn't really beefed up like the suspension of the F150 Lightning.

It's definitely a problem.

 

[afadeev]

You guys think same trim M3 but like a 2021 or a 2019 at 80K miles (ish) for the same price would be a safer bet to get into? Or should we avoid something like that as well?

The key is the price, which drives the value proposition for buying used vs. new.
I would strongly advise to take the perspective vehicle's VIN and mileage, and run it by Carvana to see what you would get for it if you were selling that used car private. Be prepared to be shocked about the gap between used car dealers are asking vs. what you might get if you tried to sell it.

Just because a used Model 3 with 110+K miles is listed for $17.5K does not make it a good deal. In fact, it may very well be rip-off pricing!

a

 

[PianoAl]

82K in 4.1 years. It looks, feels, and drives as it did when it was new.

 

[cmaster]

The key is the price, which drives the value proposition from buying used vs. new.
I would strongly advise to take the perspective vehicle's VIN and mileage, and run it by Carvana to see what you would get for it if you were selling that used car private. Be prepared to be shocked about the gap between used car dealers are asking vs. what you might get if you tried to sell it.

Just because a used Model 3 with 110+K miles is listed for $17.5K does not make it a good deal. In fact, it may very well be rip-off pricing!

a

I've seen cars like this bought, 1 year later, it needs battery replaced. As much as people like to live in the clouds, they probably unprepared to accept the truth.

All Tesla high mileage should be bought with caution since it gets out of warranty very quickly, then, you'll be knocked on extremely expensive out of warrant repairs. It's nice while everything is under warranty. It's another side of the story when it gets out of warranty.

Then, we would have the Tesla simps, "it's allright, it's expensive to service just like other cars".....problem with that statement, most stuff on the Tesla needs to be brought to a specialist to get fixed....you can't repair them by yourself. In addition, the EV repair specialists are far and few n between. Many mom and pop garages will not work on them.

 

[Hiline]

A new Model 3 Long Range costs $45k (inventory price + destination fee + order fee). Do you think an $18k 110k-mile Model 3 Long Range would give you at least 40% the lifetime of a new one? In other words, do you believe that a Model 3 Long Range will last more than 200k miles?

If the answer is yes, this is at least an acceptable deal.

Elon Musk said once that a Model 3 Long Range battery should last 500k miles and the body should last a million miles. I'm going to be conservative and assume 300k miles and 500k miles respectively. So the used Model 3 Long Range would be a great deal to me.

 

[Foxsbiscuits]

The suspension issues are common. Car is heavier than ICE car of the same dimension. And, the suspension of the Model 3/Y isn't really beefed up like the suspension of the F150 Lightning.

It's definitely a problem.

 

[Hiline]

I've seen cars like this bought, 1 year later, it needs battery replaced. As much as people like to live in the clouds, they probably unprepared to accept the truth.

All Tesla high mileage should be bought with caution since it gets out of warranty very quickly, then, you'll be knocked on extremely expensive out of warrant repairs. It's nice while everything is under warranty. It's another side of the story when it gets out of warranty.

Then, we would have the Tesla simps, "it's allright, it's expensive to service just like other cars".....problem with that statement, most stuff on the Tesla needs to be brought to a specialist to get fixed....you can't repair them by yourself. In addition, the EV repair specialists are far and few n between. Many mom and pop garages will not work on them.

Can you share some details of these cars you've seen? What vehicles are these? Model 3? Model S? How old were they, in terms of age and mileage? Were these battery replacements for the high voltage battery or the 12V battery? How much did battery replacement cost approximately?