Model S Dual Chargers, what do I need to do?

[SSedan]

Not that it applies in TX but higher amperage is nice in winter when energy use spikes. I can go to work get home set amperage high and recoup the miles quickly before leaving for a trip.
First winter I had the car was on a 14-30 outlet and morning warmups would suck down a few miles even while plugged in.

With 80 amps available I can use scheduled departure and have good regen when leaving even in the cold.

No doubt 40amps is almost always enough, the cost of wire and a wall connector to upgrade to 80 though really is not that much and the one time you need it you will be glad you have it.

My most common road trip involves a 180mile stretch from the supercharger to home. It is nice to put 30miles into the car while unloading and then run to the grocery store, rather than wait to charge higher at the supercharger.

Another angle I think being dismissed is the dual charger cars are very likely already or going to suffer from severe supercharging speed reductions, and likely down to under 240miles on 100%. If you have 80amps available at home you can care less about trying to get home with 20% or something because now you know you can recoup faster.

I fail to grasp the "logic" behind buying a needlessly expensive car like a Tesla then worrying about a one time cost of a few hundred extra dollars to be able to get the most out of it.
If that few hundred dollars is so important buy a lightly used Impala they are cheap, more reliable, comfortable and once you consider repairs and insurance definitely cheaper to own.

 

[Fragger]

Dear Friends,

Can you so much for all your thoughts, experiences. If I can summarize:

Most are concluding that even the ones who have had the capability, have not had much need to charge at 80 amps. I would probably agree with all of you, given my usage. However, some follow up questions:

1. To make use of the dual Chargers, do I need to buy any additional hardware? Or it's all about paying the electrician to set up the appropriate power coming to the outlet from the breaker and the meter?

2. For folks for did this, do you mind sharing the cost increase you guys had to deal with, over a simple SEMA 14-50 outlet? Keep in mind my current outlet it right next to do the breaker... The picture of this outlet and breaker is attached for you guys to determine what kind it is...

Thank you again for everyone chiming in here!

 

[murphyS90D]

What year is your car? The statement that you don't have free supercharging makes me wonder. Only the very early cars came with dual chargers. My early 2016 came with a single charger and I paid $2000 to have the second charger installed at the service center. Your pictures show a 120 volt 20 amp circuit. NEMA 14-50 uses a 240 volt 50 amp circuit. That provides a maximum of 40 amps for charging which means dual chargers are not needed.
With the outlet next to the panel the cost of heavier wire is insignificant. I had to buy 100 feet of 2 gauge wire which is significant.
At some point after early 2016 they did away with 80 amp charging so until we know exactly what car you have it is not possible to tell you what your options are.

 

[bob_p]

The cost of installing a 100A vs 50A circuit will vary.

Adding a 100A circuit and charging at 72A or 80A could pose problems, if adding the EV charging combined with the peak load from the rest of the house could exceed the power capacity for a breaker panel or the entire house.

When our first Tesla arrived in early 2013, we installed a 100A circuit for our HPWC. The HPWC was located only a few feet from the breaker panel. The electricians ran exposed conduit between the breaker panel and the HPWC. And our panel had enough available power to allow us to use 80A for EV charging. Because of the short distance, the difference in cost between running a 50A or a 100A circuit was not that great.

If we'd installed the HPWC further away or if the current panel wasn't able to support a 100A circuit, installation costs would have been much higher - and if our house didn't have enough power to support a new 100A circuit, the cost would have gone up even more by increasing the grid power coming to the house.

And, now that we have 8 years of experience with 3 Tesla vehicles, we're more comfortable with charging on 60A circuits - though we now have multiple superchargers within a 20-40 minute drive from our house, so we have an easy fallback if we ever need to charge quickly.

For those owners that don't have nearby superchargers, there may be a greater need to charge at 72 or 80A, and justify the extra cost for the hardware to support that.

 

[SSedan]

Again old dual charger cars are likely to have had their supercharging speed slashed.

An 80amp capable install doesn't have to run at 80amps, I rarely turn mine up that high. Far as power use I live near Green Bay 200amp service with no gas in the house, most of the heat is air source heat pump with bathrooms still on baseboard electric and a 1996 electric water heater I plan to upgrade soon. House is leaky as hell too 1970s build "quality".
I have turned it up to 80amps in winter and haven't seen a problem but generally stay around 40amps.
I also keep a modern detached garage just above freezing on electric heat as well.

 

[EV-Fixme]

What year is your car? The statement that you don't have free supercharging makes me wonder. Only the very early cars came with dual chargers. My early 2016 came with a single charger and I paid $2000 to have the second charger installed at the service center. Your pictures show a 120 volt 20 amp circuit. NEMA 14-50 uses a 240 volt 50 amp circuit. That provides a maximum of 40 amps for charging which means dual chargers are not needed.
With the outlet next to the panel the cost of heavier wire is insignificant. I had to buy 100 feet of 2 gauge wire which is significant.
At some point after early 2016 they did away with 80 amp charging so until we know exactly what car you have it is not possible to tell you what your options are.

Dual charger was an option, all 40 amp cars can upgrade to 80 amp dual, 48 amp cars should be upgrade-able to 72. I had 1 customer who was told by Tesla that 80A charging was not possible. We added the second charger and he's been happily charging at home with 80A now.

 

[EV-Fixme]

Again old dual charger cars are likely to have had their supercharging speed slashed.

An 80amp capable install doesn't have to run at 80amps, I rarely turn mine up that high. Far as power use I live near Green Bay 200amp service with no gas in the house, most of the heat is air source heat pump with bathrooms still on baseboard electric and a 1996 electric water heater I plan to upgrade soon. House is leaky as hell too 1970s build "quality".
I have turned it up to 80amps in winter and haven't seen a problem but generally stay around 40amps.
I also keep a modern detached garage just above freezing on electric heat as well.

Why are dual charger cars likely to loose supercharging speed? I've seen many single charger cars with reduced supercharging speed. The reduction seems to be a battery condition.

 

[SSedan]

Just due to age, did not mean to imply it was inherently due to the charger setup.
Dual chargers is an option that died long ago so those cars are old.

 

[Big Toys]

Speed costs money. How much is it worth to you. My 2015 S charges with 220V 30A service, but my charger is selectable so I keep it at 25A to protect the 30A wires. It charges fast enough overnight for my needs, and the cost of larger gauge wire didn't seem worth it.

 

[murphyS90D]

Speed costs money. How much is it worth to you. My 2015 S charges with 220V 30A service, but my charger is selectable so I keep it at 25A to protect the 30A wires. It charges fast enough overnight for my needs, and the cost of larger gauge wire didn't seem worth it.

It should be set to 24 amps. For continuous duty, in the USA, a circuit must be derated to 80% of the circuit breaker rating.
80% 0f 30 is 24. Charging a car for several hours is definitely continuous duty.

 

[SSedan]

Again the cost of wire isn't as much as people think.

3awg is $1.28 a foot 2 conductors needed and the 8 awg ground is $.61.

That is $3.17 a foot plus you would need conduit. That is $158.50 for the wire. 1" conduit is $3.80 for 10ft so another $20 then let's just toss out $50 for some fittings, so $230 in conduit and wire for a 100amp circuit. The breaker will cost more too $40 instead of $10. That means $270 for materials

A 50ft roll of 6/3 Romex you might use for a 14/50 install is $129 a roll, and a $10 breaker.
So the breaker and wire without outlet or HCWC for a 50ft. Circuit is $140 different and I feel I rounded up some.
Is this the crushing financial burden folks make it out to be?

Then IMO you should have a backup plan.
If you spend $500 on a HCWC then you have the UMC as backup.

If you spend $70 on the premium 14-50 outlet and $300 on a second 32amp UMC you.

Where are we now like $260-270 price difference between the standard or the top of the line that leaves you better prepared for a possible second car or unforseen emergency where the faster charging might help.

If you are looking at having to do a new fuse box or the like and the price is $2000 or something I get it.

My point though is so many PRETEND the price is staggeringly different, you just bought a Tesla is an extra $270 at least worth considering as opposed to all those who blindly dismiss it as wildly expensive?
I just want folks to understand the options not dismiss as too expensive based on no facts

 

[dk10438]

IMO, is it cool to have 80A? yes. Is it necessary? Probably not for most people. So if there was a big delta in the pricing, might not be worth it (ie getting gouged with the Gen2, long runs etc). In my situation, my run from the breaker box was 3 feet and the Gen3 didn't exist so the difference between getting a Nema 14-50 v. HPWC (given to me by my parents) was negligible.

I do prefer the look of having a permanently mounted HPWC over the mobile connector so that could be a consideration. There are some downsides to the Gen 2 such as a bigger cable which doesn't sound like a big deal but my wife thinks it's too heavy and she doesn't like it.

 

[Fragger]

Thank you guys,

Just to answer some follow ups:

1. It's a 2014 build.
2. Tesla takes away free Supercharging on "used" cars now.
3. I live within 30 minutes of a Supercharger


With that said, I guess only an electrician can advise how much power my breaker can provide, right?

And when I have them over, I'm asking my options for a SEMA 14-50 outlet delivering at 50 amps vs. 100?

I thought about doing a Wall charger, but that ties me down to Tesla only charging, correct?

 

[Big Toys]

It should be set to 24 amps. For continuous duty, in the USA, a circuit must be derated to 80% of the circuit breaker rating.
80% 0f 30 is 24. Charging a car for several hours is definitely continuous duty.

Ha, yes it is set at 24A. I stated 25A for sake of simplicity. Good eye!

 

[murphyS90D]

1. A 2014 car can have dual chargers. The second charger is only needed if you want to charge above 40 amps.
With the car not connected for charging see how high you can raise the current setting in the car. If it stops at 40 you have a single charger. If it goes up to 80 you have dual chargers.
2. They only do that on cars that they take back in trade. A private party to private party sale would not lose free supercharging.
3. A 60 mile round trip to charge a car would get very old in a hurry.

An electrician can do a load analysis of your house based on the NEC rules.
It's NEMA not SEMA.

NEMA - The Association of Electrical Equipment and Medical Imaging Manufacturers

A 14-50 outlet gets connected to a 50 amp circuit and can provide a maximum of 40 amps for car charging.

A wall charger is Tesla only although there have been reports of someone making an adapter to feed a standard J1772 plug.

 

[Big Toys]

Again the cost of wire isn't as much as people think.

3awg is $1.28 a foot 2 conductors needed and the 8 awg ground is $.61.

That is $3.17 a foot plus you would need conduit. That is $158.50 for the wire. 1" conduit is $3.80 for 10ft so another $20 then let's just toss out $50 for some fittings, so $230 in conduit and wire for a 100amp circuit. The breaker will cost more too $40 instead of $10. That means $270 for materials

A 50ft roll of 6/3 Romex you might use for a 14/50 install is $129 a roll, and a $10 breaker.
So the breaker and wire without outlet or HCWC for a 50ft. Circuit is $140 different and I feel I rounded up some.
Is this the crushing financial burden folks make it out to be?

Then IMO you should have a backup plan.
If you spend $500 on a HCWC then you have the UMC as backup.

If you spend $70 on the premium 14-50 outlet and $300 on a second 32amp UMC you.

Where are we now like $260-270 price difference between the standard or the top of the line that leaves you better prepared for a possible second car or unforseen emergency where the faster charging might help.

If you are looking at having to do a new fuse box or the like and the price is $2000 or something I get it.

My point though is so many PRETEND the price is staggeringly different, you just bought a Tesla is an extra $270 at least worth considering as opposed to all those who blindly dismiss it as wildly expensive?
I just want folks to understand the options not dismiss as too expensive based on no facts

Again the cost of wire isn't as much as people think.

3awg is $1.28 a foot 2 conductors needed and the 8 awg ground is $.61.

That is $3.17 a foot plus you would need conduit. That is $158.50 for the wire. 1" conduit is $3.80 for 10ft so another $20 then let's just toss out $50 for some fittings, so $230 in conduit and wire for a 100amp circuit. The breaker will cost more too $40 instead of $10. That means $270 for materials

A 50ft roll of 6/3 Romex you might use for a 14/50 install is $129 a roll, and a $10 breaker.
So the breaker and wire without outlet or HCWC for a 50ft. Circuit is $140 different and I feel I rounded up some.
Is this the crushing financial burden folks make it out to be?

Then IMO you should have a backup plan.
If you spend $500 on a HCWC then you have the UMC as backup.

If you spend $70 on the premium 14-50 outlet and $300 on a second 32amp UMC you.

Where are we now like $260-270 price difference between the standard or the top of the line that leaves you better prepared for a possible second car or unforseen emergency where the faster charging might help.

If you are looking at having to do a new fuse box or the like and the price is $2000 or something I get it.

My point though is so many PRETEND the price is staggeringly different, you just bought a Tesla is an extra $270 at least worth considering as opposed to all those who blindly dismiss it as wildly expensive?
I just want folks to understand the options not dismiss as too expensive based on no facts

Keep in mind, not everyone is handy playing in a breaker box, have the tools to bend and screw down 6 gauge wire, run conduit, a snake to pull very stiff wire, and install the outlet into a box. 50' of 6/3 Romex is an expensive, heavy doorstop. Pay an electrician to supply and install to run your $500 box, and you are talking more $$ than many people want to spend.

 

[Fragger]

Thank you again guys...

Can someone explain the hardware I'd need to buy when do want to use both Chargers? I can't imagine it in my head how this is done (my first EV ever)... Is it like you take another mobile charger, plug it to another 14-50 outlet then stick that wire into the second charger input of the car? Or is it something that sort of forks out of an existing device...?

Again, forgive the ignorance.. I Googled this too, unsuccessfully... Thank you again!

 

[murphyS90D]

The second charger is installed inside of the car underneath the rear seat. The car only has one charging input. The Gen 1 and Gen2 HPWC can supply up to 80 amps. You can set the current that you want on the big screen in the car. The UMC that came with the car can only supply 40 amps and would never use the second charger in the car. There is some terminology confusion here. The charger(s) are in the car. The UMC and HPWC are properly called an EVSE (Electric Vehicle Supply Equipment). They have AC in and AC out. The conversion to DC happens in the car by the charger in the car. An EVSE has some control and safety circuitry and a huge contactor to turn the power on and off.

 

[Big Toys]

The second charger is installed inside of the car underneath the rear seat. The car only has one charging input. The Gen 1 and Gen2 HPWC can supply up to 80 amps. You can set the current that you want on the big screen in the car. The UMC that came with the car can only supply 40 amps and would never use the second charger in the car. There is some terminology confusion here. The charger(s) are in the car. The UMC and HPWC are properly called an EVSE (Electric Vehicle Supply Equipment). They have AC in and AC out. The conversion to DC happens in the car by the charger in the car. An EVSE has some control and safety circuitry and a huge contactor to turn the power on and off.

To make this ^^ clearer, the thing on your wall (or the thing you plug into the wall) is not a "charger". It is simply a safety interface between your car and the electricity source. This is in contrast to the thing you plug into the wall when you charge your phone. *That* is a charger, which changes AC to DC that is sent to your phone battery.

 

[MakeUSGreat]

I’m wondering if wall connector V2 is better than V3?
Also I have a order in for the 500 miles Cybetruck, and also will be buying the Roadster once is available. Which has a 600 mile range. I’m think both will have dual chargers, or it will take forever to charge if you are close to empty.