Model X Crash on US-101 (Mountain View, CA)

[TEG]

Personally I call the crews responsible for the area when I see a safety, storm water or trash issue in the area I live. There is a # to call for the public to send complaints (or compliments, super rare but does happen up here) and the crew has 24 hrs to respond and check on the problem. We get hundreds a week in a ~100k populated area. I actually sit near the lady who takes our calls, some are craaazy, many are valid. Either way the maintenance supervisor needs to address the call and respond.

Contact Caltrans

Please do your part to help us if you see a problem!
At least those signs should have been reported long ago! Not sure when the smart cushion was hit? Was it reported?
We are all in his together, our culture sucks, it needs to change.

Isn't the CHP aware that these device can be impacted and require CALTRANS to reset / repair them?
Doesn't the CHP notify CALTRANS automatically for something like this?

In general, I think the CHP values protecting safety of people on the highways, and if it isn't part of their job to notice and report dysfunctional smart cushions, I would hope it could become part of their job. They are out cruising the highways looking for problems as part of their regular job. It seems like something they ought to be noticing and reporting.

 

[dgatwood]

Personally I call the crews responsible for the area when I see a safety, storm water or trash issue in the area I live. There is a # to call for the public to send complaints (or compliments, super rare but does happen up here) and the crew has 24 hrs to respond and check on the problem.

I would assume that any collision sufficient to collapse one of those barriers would have resulted in CHP getting involved. If they aren't reporting barrier damage properly, that's arguably at least as bad as if Caltrans just didn't bother to fix it.

For what it is worth, it looks like Caltrans has a maintenance facility practically right next to that location...

Caltrans Middlefield Rd Maintenance Station, Santa Clara County, California, United States

I wonder if that's because of how many times per day they have to reset that barrier.

 

[Xu_wan]

If anyone here is a wrongful death attorney, I would try to reach of to the family of the deceased victim. I am not a lawyer however I am pretty sure if the family of the victim decides to file a lawsuit for wrongful death and negligence they would almost certainly win.

 

[McRat]

I really get a kick from all the kids on this forum who never drove before the idiot cushions. Heck, we didn't have guardrails on most roads.

But as drivers get stupider and stupider, and car armor goes up and up, and the body count rises anyways, we are sort of left will just lawsuits to deal with dumb folk running into solid objects.

I do think we should start up a volunteer group to go out and fix these barriers people destroy while folk are texting at 80mph within feet of them.

Hell, I won't even pull over in the emergency lane if there is any other option possible. People drive too poorly to have reasonably safe emergency lanes.

 

[TEG]

What gov't agency has authority to maintain road safety devices and what is their contact information? And who supervises them and has firing and funding authority for them? Someone needs to make some changes.
...

I would guess that this guy has some responsibility for that location:
https://www.linkedin.com/in/earl-sherman-7a994379/

 

[Zextraterrestrial]

Chp should be helping, doesn’t always happen. There are different relationships between ct and chp in different areas. I don’t know how it is in the Bay Area.
There is a lot going on, is chp looking for problems or drivers breaking the law? They should be looking for both.
Obviously someone knew the cushion was hit since there were cones out. I think there would definitely be some responsibility on CT. I just wanted to say that there is a lot going on all the time that needs fixing and not enough people or equipment to fix it.
Things like this are sad.
We have had similar accidents where a safety device was taken out shortly before another vehicle crashed in the same area, or a maintenance crew being hit while fixing something like this!

 

[bmah]

Moderator note: Moved some inflammatory posts to snippiness. Regrettably, some other posts that were replies to those came along as collateral damage.

Bruce.

 

[TEG]

Recap / medley of Impacted hwy 85/101 (Mountain View) Smart Cushion photos seen on Street view:

2013 Nov:

2014 Sep:

2014 Dec:

2015 Mar:

2015 Sep:

2015 Nov:

2017 Jan:

2017 Feb:

2017 Apr:

2018 Mar 15 Dashcam (not from Streetview):

2018 Mar 22 DashCam (not from Streetview):

2018 Mar 23 DashCam (not from Streetview) about an hour before the crash:

2018 Mar 24 DashCam (not from Streetview) the day after the crash:

( Note, it was observed fully compressed on March 15, 22, 23, & 24 )


I am not sure if we see it like that a lot due to frequent recompression impact events, or it is just left in the impacted / compressed state for extended periods of time.

I find it interesting that those orange cones seemed to have appeared between Mar 15 and Mar 23 (just before the big crash). Having the orange cones part way into the leftmost lane could have ended up making this situation worse. It seems to me that orange cones are not a good solution for more than just a temporary situation. They have a tendency to get knocked around and moved. It looks like in the days leading up to the crash, cone appeared there, and then got knocked over and moved around.

 

[Zextraterrestrial]

IMO there should be a ton of tall candlestick delineators in the gore area if it is hit that often. Something to run into first, although maintenance would probably need to be out there at least weekly to replace them as they were taken out.

 

[bhzmark]

To further contribute to the intelligent, thoughtful, and potentially lifesaving, discussion about the action and inaction of the government agency that we expect to keep the roads safe, I summarize or repeat the following:

@TEG posted numerous references to internal Caltrans documents that show that the reset repair of the compression gate was represented as only using $40 in parts and 30 minutes of labor. There was a nice summary of the key points -- too time consuming to reconstruct it, but the point is that there is consensus that cost of the repair of the gore compression barrier in money and time is minimal.

And yet the forensic posts of numerous Google street views shows that barrier is collapsed all the time. And we are all watching now to see how quickly they repair it after their negligence claimed a life.

Not deploying those resources to fix the barrier is negligent homicide -- if it were a private party. Sovereign immunity protects the decision makers at CalTrans who fail to deploy the minor resources that can save lives.

Report your CalTrans request here and let's see how promptly they make the repair:

Submit Customer Service Request

Someone wisely pointed out that the repair now for the barrier is likely more than $40 and 30 minutes -- because now the barrier was further compressed after Right. Before this crash it probably would have been just the as -designed $40 and 30 minutes reset.

So because they failed to do the $40 and 30 minutes reset prior to this crash, they now have a death and a more expensive repair.

For those who work at CalTrans -- what action are you taking to ensure this doesn't happen again? What are you doing within the channels available to you to make it known to people in CalTrans that resetting these barriers promptly after an accident is a low-cost and easy way to save lives and money? Instead of name calling people who simply point out facts, do something yourself.

 

[22522]

On the wreck, I see 2 plausible theories right now:

A) AP failure and a driver not paying attention (reading his phone). The bright head on sun and glare confused AP, as it followed the documented "seam" across the glared out and quite worn white lines. It then found itself in the "middle lane" and drove the X directly head on and square into the barrier.

I have some problems with both the road and this theory.

1) Non-lanes should be full of chevrons. This is for people and machines. The state is at fault.

2) Tesla should be using rear facing cameras to confirm any glare obscured line/lane information provided by the front cameras. If there is no parity check, the car should alarm and then slow down. Just as a responsible driver would if glare was obscuring their view.

A third theory is: a commanded lane change that finished in the non-lane.

Someone may have said this, as I have not read the entire thread.

But I did drive the route today, and on the return trip reflected on the Waymo van driving north on Central Expessway/Alma.

Alma has a speed limit of 35 mph.
Alma is bounded on one side by a railroad track.
Alma is a limited access (on the west) 35 mph road. The google golf carts were 25 mph city street cars.

Waymo vans love Alma. It is a safe easy drive for both beginning and experienced drivers.

 

[TEG]

A third theory is: a commanded lane change that finished in the non-lane.
Someone may have said this, as I have not read the entire thread.

Yes, I floated that as a possible theory way back many pages.
Model X Crash on US-101 (Mountain View, CA)

 

[bhzmark]

For perhaps a month it wasn't repaired? Note the cable and debris untouched over time.

 

[TEG]

Things I find distressing about that location that may contribute to the likely-hood of a crash there:

#1: Leftover signage from last year still in the road that could confuse drivers into thinking that they had to make a sudden lane change:

( Compound that with a couple of orange warning cones that ended up in the lane area ahead )

#2: Freeway widening / restructuring / rework that left seams that could possibly confuse people (and autopilot cameras) into thinking that the "gore area" was a lane:

If the car was moved to have the seam be the left edge of the lane it could end up hitting the cement wall we are concerned about.

#3: Morning commute into the Sun glare.

#4: Rare left hand exit lane confusing drivers who make a panic move to go right at the last minute (risking hitting the wall) to get back to the 101S instead of leaving to the 85.

#5: None of those "candlestick delineators" to stop people from trying to jump into that left lane to pass around someone.
(Having them would also have the added benefit of making people exit safely to the 85 instead of trying to cut across back to 101 at an unsafe moment. )

#6: Unsafe "gore area"/"not a lane" that is the approximate width of a lane, and looks a lot like a lane for some distance.
#7: Gore area which lacks chevrons to warn people to stay out.
#8: Gore area which lacks bump strips to warn people to stay out.
#9: Gore area which lacks "botts dots" on the edges to warn people to stay out.
#10: Unsafe crash cushion that has damaged warning sign and is frequently seen in an "already impacted" state not ready to absorb crash energy.

It just seems like somewhat of a recipe for disaster. I think people should consider ways to improve on any/all of these things.

 

[TEG]

I think there is a lot of a agreement that the "gore area" / "gore zone" / "not a lane" / "new 101 shoulder" area ought to be much better marked as a danger zone and warn people to stay out.

If they aren't willing to put a row of plastic poles ("candlestick delineators") in there, some other options are possible...

This shows some ideas:

The wall could have a reflective warning sign above the smart cushion to make it clear that there was a wall there even if the smart cushion label was damaged.
The wall could have a monitoring camera looking at the smart cushion like CALTRANS has looking at some other smart cushions elsewhere in the state so they could monitor if it has been impacted.
The gore zone could have painted chevron patterns.
The solid white lines trying to keep you out of the gore zone could have "bott's dots" or reflectors to make it more clear that it is a danger zone, not a lane.
The gore zone could have some texture so you hear / feel it if you got in there.

 

[TEG]

I don't know if the "Division of Maintenance" can do any of those things (other than reset the smart cushion, and move cones around)...
I would expect any major changes would have to filter into a large, complex, long term strategy plan like this:
http://www.dot.ca.gov/dist4/systemplanning/docs/us-101-south-csmp.pdf
I get the feeling changes to the freeways happen in slow motion.

 

[dgatwood]

I think there is a lot of a agreement that the "gore area" / "gore zone" / "not a lane" / "new 101 shoulder" area ought to be much better marked as a danger zone and warn people to stay out.

View attachment 289051

If they aren't willing to put a row of plastic poles ("candlestick delineators") in there, some other options are possible...

This shows some ideas:
View attachment 289053
The wall could have a reflective warning sign above the smart cushion to make it clear that there was a wall there even if the smart cushion label was damaged.
The wall could have a monitoring camera looking at the smart cushion like CALTRANS has looking at some other smart cushions elsewhere in the state so they could monitor if it has been impacted.
The gore zone could have painted chevron patterns.
The solid white lines trying to keep you out of the gore zone could have "bots dots" or reflectors to make it more clear that it is a danger zone, not a lane.
The gore zone could have some texture so you hear / feel it if you got in there.

There was a crash in 2016 at a very similar gore point (at the opposite end of the same road) with two fatalities involving a Greyhound bus, and the NTSB blamed Caltrans for inadequate markings months ago, but nothing got done, and now we have a second fatal wreck. This seems to be a design flaw endemic to Bay Area highways.

 

[flar]

The track in front of the collapsed barricade isn't that easy to see especially with morning glare, cones and other debris, and the panic of a last minute maneuver. If someone was focused on a last minute lane change and missed the barrier, it could catch their front wheels and trap them in a head-on trajectory.

The danger of a collapsed barrier is not just a lack of impact absorption, it's that there is now a guide to direct cars into the barrier.

 

[TaoJones]

Correct, needs to be Class C.

Early in this thread there was a view expressed that a handheld extinguisher wouldn’t help much with a pack fire. The above is a reply thereto.

While if you can spare the room, a more traditional Class C extinguisher would be considerably more practical, the following option pretty much renders moot any concerns about inconvenience due to not having room. After all, we all carry a 3-day emergency kit in the car, right? Right? Well, of course we should.

Scenario for the following item being not so much extinguishing a pack fire (at all) but more helping to extinguish a person or clearing a path to help extricate a person. It’s much more likely a responder is going to encounter a traditional engine fire - but the point remains. Edge case maybe, but every little bit helps.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B0051TPJKG/

Or

https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B000EFQCKI/

 

[TEG]

Also, reminder that in 2012/2013 they had piles of sand barrels instead of the smart cushion they have now.

Those were a lot more visible, and a Model S / X hitting those would have a wider area so nothing jabbing between the frame rails.
I think they stopped using those because they were more expensive to replace, and harder for workers to replace.
I wonder if the number of impacts has risen because of the lower visibility of the new barrier.