Been really interested in the track package and CCBs available on the S Plaid. Any thoughts on will it be available on the X Plaid?
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Model X Plaid : Track Package and CCBs
- Thread starter Cars 97
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Aside from better brakes why would anyone take a model X to track it. It’s not about horsepower. It is just a huge heavy vehicle.
That seems like a true waste of effort on an absurd use case. Bring on better brakes though!
That seems like a true waste of effort on an absurd use case. Bring on better brakes though!
Absolutely concur. Just because you *could* shouldnt mean always you *should* but each to their own! Track work is all about weight if you know track stuff. And that hammers and wears out a million inter related components you dont think about. Recommend doing track days in a track prepared car. Its possible to set this up (look at what M does to the X5 to try to help it do track work, AMG, etc. etc. etc.) with enough parts from Unplugged, Mountain Pass and the like. I ordered some upgraded brakes, lines and Castrol fluid and wheels not to do track work, but because they are spectacularly not fit for purpose from the manufacturer... Do one high speed slow down and then see what I mean... But yeah
Totally agree. I have the refreshed LR and the brakes(same as Plaid) aren’t even good enough for the LR. Even the LR accelerates faster than it brakes (at least feels that way).
The Plaid is just unsafely equipped in the braking department for its power.
Honestly though why track an SUV/Crossover period. Just because BMW, Porsche, AMG comes more track equipped doesn’t mean it’s a good idea. You get a vehicle that’s not great at utility, not great at comfort, not great at the track.
Why not just start with a smaller/lighter platform. Weight is a huge penalty that hp won’t make up for in the curves or braking.
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What exactly precisely did you observe?
I have a plaid X and after multiple hard brake applications from triple digits I observed the brakes worked just fine — no fade although one time after repeated applications I did get the warning light for high temp. But the brakes worked just fine for what was NOT track driving but was unusually hard usage for the street.
The brakes aren’t strong enough. Takes too long to slow down. Even my LR accelerates faster than it brakes - I don’t know if that’s actually true but sure feels that way. That is not something most people are used to. It’s like you have to plan a longer stretch of road before a curve to slow down.
Tessellation
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Braking distance of the Model X from 60-0 is 127 ft, according to Consumer Reports. That's actually better than the Porsche Cayenne (131 ft).
Not sure about brake fade, if that's what you're referring to.
It’s just not paired well to the power. These cars can accelerate and gain speed very fast and the brakes need to be able to reduce speed faster.
To be fair top end Cayennes like the Gt and turbo come OEM with very uprated brakes. A plaid (like mine) is hilariously incompetent for even one high speed stop. The fault is not the calipers, the low end pads and brake fluid is a good start. I upgraded rotors to ones with more radial sweep to annulus (bigger pads which still fit original calipers and oem rotors size) that said.. I did get unplugged steel uprated rotors, plus pads, steel lines and Castrol srf that's as much as you can do before big brake or ceramics.
Porsche make their fast fat suvs with brakes to match. Watch any Car Wow X to German SUV speed tests.
Be precise and specific. What exactly and precisely did you experience? “Not strong enough” sounds like a statement not based on actual experience but just imagination.
For instance did you trigger the ABS ?
Or did you try to brake harder and harder slamming on the brakes and the ABS didn’t engage because of brake fade?
If you didn’t really slam on the brakes then you didn’t get anywhere near the limit of the brakes.
I’ve done some high speed acceleration followed by hard braking and was shocked how long the car too to slow down. My first thought was like wow if this was an emergency these brakes would not cut it.
The more power and the faster a car goes, the brakes need to match. Sorry Tesla did a poor job in this area. You don’t have to agree. I love my Tesla but I can acknowledge where the shortcomings are.
Sorry to confuse you with so many words. I’ll be brief.
Did you fully slam on the brakes? To the floor? Yes or no?
Did you engage the ABS? yes or no?
I felt like I had slammed the brakes pretty hard. Could I have slammed them harder, maybe? It sure felt the pedal was close to being slammed to the floor. If there was room left it wouldn’t have been much.
It wasn’t supposed to be a brake test. I was in a 35mph zone and was going around 30. I slammed the accelerator to show him. The car got to 80 in the matter of seconds. Btw this range is the sweet spot for the LR. It is can match or is faster than the previous Raven in this range. I realized how fast I was going and thought I might have seen a cop so I slammed the brake hard. That’s all I can say.
You may be happy with your brakes. I am not. To back up what I said there are plenty of reviews of the Model S Plaid and one of the S LR and they talk about the brakes being not well matched to power to the point of being dangerous. One reviewer said he can see inexperienced people crashing their plaid on a curve because the car couldn’t slow fast enough for the amount of speed it built up on the straights.
That was the S. The X is going to brake worse, especially loaded with people.
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1. You didn't slam on the brakes hard enough.
2. You didn't even engage the ABS.
3. You didn't brake hard enough, multiple times to trigger the brake warning light.
4. This wasn't even a Model X ffs.
5. Lots of Boy Racers like to post nonsense about plaid brakes, ignorant of the fact that the stock (even the old) Plaid brakes lock up the brakes enough to get to the limit of the tires, and thus engage ABS, and brakes better than other comparable cars. See below.
6. Reliable testing by reliable car authorities (not silly twitter or you tube Boy Racers) report that the Model S and Model X brake just fine under normal everyday driving conditions, including repeat tests from 100 mph.
7. The very very few people who actually track their car, or drive energetically enough, or perhaps under some weird other situations, that they may overheat their brakes with repeated heavy braking from high speeds, may surpass the upper thermal capacity of the stock brake components
8. Track brake components (mostly pads and fluid) will give a higher upper thermal capacity to deal with that at the expense of potentially higher *lower* thermal operating range
8. That is, cold track brake components won't work as well as cold OEM brake components.
The Stock (old) Model S brakes shorter from repeated stops from 100 mph shorter than the BMW M5 CS with BMW carbon ceramic brakes.
car and driver tests
Plaid from 100 mph: 284 feet
BMW M5 from 100: 294 feet
911 Targa from 100: 285 feet below and Tested: 2022 Porsche 911 Targa 4 GTS Demonstrates the Art of Compromise
and from 70 mph Model S is 150 while the Taycan is 159 feet (Cross Turismo is 161) by Car and Driver. (they didn't do 100 mph with the Taycan for some reason)
For the Model X:
The Model X brakes 172 feet from 70 mph
The Audi Q7 brakes 178 feet from 70 mph
These are heavy cars. At normal driving temps, including ice cold temps, the braking is limited by tire traction, not the brake components.
Only with repeated high speed braking that significantly raises the temperature of the brake components will track brake components be a benefit to work at those extreme operating temps, but at a cost of diminished cold performance as well as noise and dust and more frequent fluid changes among other things.
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No, *this* is a 'garbage' answer^ Maybe you could have replied with something useful, if it didn't "meet your needs". The laziness of the public connected to the internet to casually fire off unhelpful, useless insults never ceases to amaze... My drill sergeant always said "don't come to me without ****ing solutions" and when you have the privilege of leading people in serious circumstances, you see the red faced ape was right...
The cars you have listed above aren't even remotely close in acceleration.
The big point you are missing is the Acceleration to Braking balance. In most cars they brake way faster than they accelerate. Tesla turns this on it's head and the acceleration is faster than the braking (in particular the Plaid).
The point I am making is you can get into serious dangerous speeds very rapidly and the brakes wont save you fast enough. Drivers will need to retrain themselves to leave lots of room before a curve to brake as they will be at triple digit speeds much easier/faster than in another car.
It's not about stopping distance. Its about the brakes out-performing the acceleration.
Not boy racers. Top Gear was one and there are several others. And clearly if the car is accelerating faster than it is braking then they haven't reached the limit of the tires.
Boy you guys are so defensive! I have a Tesla and love it too but get over yourselves.
