AustinPowers
Total Smeghead
Sorry for quoting your entire post, but I thought it might be easier to reply to specific points by adding my comments to the approriate sections in a different colour. So here goes:
Although one has to first admit that it is comparing apples to oranges as the e-Golf is a much smaller car that doesn't intend to serve the same purpose as the Model 3. Even more impressive imho that the e-Golf manages to even beat the Model 3 in some aspects.
For the E-Golf:
1) price
That's a no-brainer obviously.
2) paint quality and assembly
Yes, the Model 3 doesn't hold a candle to the e-Golf in that area. Sorry, but there is simply no other honest way to put it.
3) interior materials
Indeed, those in the e-Golf look and feel better. Sure, when you get into the Model 3 for the first time, especially one with a white interior like mine, you go "wow, cool". But once you get over that initial wow-effect, you start to notice the subtle but noticable differences and deficiencies. Perhaps Germans/Europeans (?) are more discerning or overly critical, but facts remain facts.
4) It's German (OK that's probably not on the explicit list, but I have to assume it's implicit)
Believe it or not, that doesn't interest me at all. I have had the chance to drive many different cars in my life up to now, and most of them actually were not German. There were many cars that were just as good as German cars in the quality department, especially higher end Asian ones. But to be honest, none of the American cars I drove up to no were of the same standard that European or Asian manufactures seem to apply. I don't know why that is, but in general American cars always felt like looks/power over substance. They offered quite a bit of (superficial) bling and lots of raw power for often very little money, but lacked refinement. The Model 3 is certainly a step in the right direction, but still adheres to this overall "mantra" I described above.
For the Tesla Model 3
1) Performance (not even close if you are comparing to DMP+, but still not that close for base model)
I am comparing my Non-P Model 3, and have already said that performance-wise the e-Golf doesn't hold a candle to the Model 3. Yet in everyday driving over here, the e-Golf's performance is more than adequate as you are able to smoke almost every other car from a standstill like at traffic lights etc. The Model 3's advantage is especially noticeable on the Autobahn or during overtaking on country roads.
2) Handling (also not even close esp for the DMP+)
Don't know about the P, but handling in the e-Golf is even better than in the standard Golf, which already is renowned for very good handling. Handling in the Model 3 is fine, don't get me wrong, it just isn't really any better than in the e-Golf.
3) Braking (again, esp. for DMP+)
Very important point. The e-Golf brakes MUCH better than the Model 3, especially considering that the Model 3 offers just two modes of regen, the stronger of which feels ok, but the e-Golf offers five modes, from no regen at all to such brutal regen that the braking feels really extrem.
Stopping distance in the e-Golf was measured in tests by the ADAC at 35.6m from 100kph to zero, the Model 3 was measured at 42.0m for the same speed under comparable conditions. That is quite a difference.
4) Passive Safety and crash worthiness (not even close here either for any Model 3 by NHTSA data)
Euro NCAP crast testing for the Model 3 appears to be missing for now. The e-Golf was tested at 94% overall, meaning five stars. I wouldn't be surprised though if the Model 3 fared even better in that respect. We feel very safe in both cars actually.
4) Space utilization and carrying capacity (much more room in vehicle 16 inches longer)
That is obvious and I don't contest that in any way.
5) Range, plus much better and faster charging network
Range, yes, faster charging network? No actually. Both the e-Golf as well as the Model 3 over here use the CCS plug, both can use high speed chargers. Especially the FastNED and Ionity chargers are even faster than the Superchargers. And as the battery of the e-Golf is only about half the capacity of the Model 3 LR AWD, charging overall takes less time, at least that is what I have experienced up to now.
6) Ride (but these are close)
Sorry to burst your bubble but that is one of the weakest points of the Model 3 from my experience, but a very strong point of the e-Golf. The ride in the Model 3, especially with those 19'' wheels and hard Hankook tires is harsh to say the least, you feel every little bump in the road, plus sound deadening is much worse in the Model 3 making for a very noise experience, especially for an EV. The e-Golf is much quieter and the ride quality is several levels above that of the Model 3.
7) Styling (admittedly subjective but no one considers the Golf to be a looker)
Styling as you say is subjective and I therefor don't count styling in my equation. But just for the record, I like the Golf styling very much, especially in the version I have got, with the aggressive looking front, the dynamic turn signals, the rear light signature, etc.
8) Active safety and accident avoidance (collision warnings, info about nearby vehicles integrated into touchscreen, plus automatic EB)
That could be considered a tie overall, as the e-Golf in the configuration I have ordered has just as many active safety features as the Model 3. TACC, even basic autosteer, emergency braking, traffic sign recognition*. It even has blind spot warning in the side view mirrors, a very handy feature that the Model 3 doesn't even offer. Sure, the Model 3 shows (some) of the other vehicles on the touch screen, but as you are looking in the side view mirror before overtaking, a blind spot warning there imho makes much more sense. Plus, the Model 3 doesn't show all other nearby vehicles, plus sometimes what it shows is erratic, so the additional safety aspect, at least in the current iteration of the system, is at least questionable.
*As for traffic sign recognition by the way, while the e-Golf gets it right about 95% of the time, the recognition level in the Model 3 is much lower. Often the displayed speed has nothing to do with reality and seems more or less random.
9) Touchscreen and operating system integration
Again, either a slight advantage for the e-Golf or at the very best a tie. Much has been said about the over-reliance on the screen for each and every function in the Model 3, even those that would have better been left as physical controls (glove-box, wiper settings. etc.), but even if you don't consider those, the UI still leaves quite a bit to be desired. Voice controls don't work as they should, media integration is worse (no CD player, no SD card, no SIM slot or WiFi hotspot funtionality, no Android Auto or Apple carplay). Yes, Spotify is nice, but FM radio seems like an afterthought, whereas it both looks pretty and works perfect in the e-Golf.
Plus there is the theme of getting into the car. I would say 80% of the time the phone-as-a-key works, but about one in five times it doesn't work, which makes it just more cumbersome then just having a physical key. Certainly no deal-breaker, but just an annoyance. Like the problems with adding Homelink, which still doesn't work, no matter what I try.
10) Navigation system (also not even close)
Actually, again, no. Not from my experience. The navigation system in the e-Golf is better overall. It calculates the routes much faster, plus offers a choice of three different routes from the get-go (fastest, shortest, most economic). The Model 3 just offers one route, and the one it offers, especially on longer distances, is often far from ideal. On our typical route to our parents in law (300+ miles) it wanted to take us along country roads instead of the Autobahn, making the trip several hours longer than normal. Plus it offers no way to individualize or change the route. You probably just have to go and drive a different route and wait for it to adapt and recalculate. Will see in a couple of weeks when we actually drive there next. Plus there are reports that the nav system in the Model 3 has problems factoring in current traffic jam situations, which is why some Model 3 drivers use the Google nav app on their phone instead.
11) semi-autonomous driving/autopilot
A feature I hardly use. I need/want enhanced TACC for driving in traffic jams, and both cars offer this. So a tie.
12) Updated and improved regularly - only car (other than other Teslas) currently getting significantly better with age. Recent improvements to power output, cold weather behavior, climate control flexibility, nav system, autopilot, and too many others to mention here.
That is indeed a major advantage of the Model 3. No question about that.
13) Fun to drive? Admittedly subjective, but I can't believe that anyone considers the e-Golf the equal of the Tesla Model 3, again esp. DMP+ versions in terms of driver enjoyment)
Yes, fun is subjective, and the immense acceleration in the Model 3 is fun and highly addictive. But in everyday driving, the e-Golf is also a lot of fun, especially considering the the better ride quality and much quieter cabin noise.
If one just focuses on the big picture here, I can't say that I see a real basis for your judgment other than pique - unless the QC and paint issues in your mind are just so egregious that they somehow cancel out the performance, handling, safety, tech, efficiency and range along with the many other advantages of the Model 3?
It's really not close, at least IMO, and this shouldn't be surprising, as the e-Golf is a warmed over ICE design. The Model 3 is a clean sheet of paper. They really aren't comparable. As fine a car as the Golf is, as the single most successful sedan in Europe, it's simply not competitive with the Model 3.
There's a reason why the Model 3, despite everyone and their mother being aware of the QC issues you and others complain about, is outselling, indeed, drop kicking every other premium sedan in the USA, and now in Europe. It's because people get the big picture. But do you?
Of course I get the big picture. Why do you think we went fully BEV with our family? Why do you think I bought a Model 3 in the first place?
But I do indeed believe, even though it was not designed at all to be a BEV, the e-Golf does an admirable job for what it is, and like I explained above, even beats the Model 3 in quite a few aspects. And not unimportant ones at that. So overall yes, it is still my favorite car of those I have owned. The Model 3 is close, like I said, but it is just so annoying in some aspects that matter during everyday use, that I couldn't put it in the top spot when I try to be perfectly honest.
Yes, really, I do indeed believe that.
Although one has to first admit that it is comparing apples to oranges as the e-Golf is a much smaller car that doesn't intend to serve the same purpose as the Model 3. Even more impressive imho that the e-Golf manages to even beat the Model 3 in some aspects.
For the E-Golf:
1) price
That's a no-brainer obviously.
2) paint quality and assembly
Yes, the Model 3 doesn't hold a candle to the e-Golf in that area. Sorry, but there is simply no other honest way to put it.
3) interior materials
Indeed, those in the e-Golf look and feel better. Sure, when you get into the Model 3 for the first time, especially one with a white interior like mine, you go "wow, cool". But once you get over that initial wow-effect, you start to notice the subtle but noticable differences and deficiencies. Perhaps Germans/Europeans (?) are more discerning or overly critical, but facts remain facts.
4) It's German (OK that's probably not on the explicit list, but I have to assume it's implicit)
Believe it or not, that doesn't interest me at all. I have had the chance to drive many different cars in my life up to now, and most of them actually were not German. There were many cars that were just as good as German cars in the quality department, especially higher end Asian ones. But to be honest, none of the American cars I drove up to no were of the same standard that European or Asian manufactures seem to apply. I don't know why that is, but in general American cars always felt like looks/power over substance. They offered quite a bit of (superficial) bling and lots of raw power for often very little money, but lacked refinement. The Model 3 is certainly a step in the right direction, but still adheres to this overall "mantra" I described above.
For the Tesla Model 3
1) Performance (not even close if you are comparing to DMP+, but still not that close for base model)
I am comparing my Non-P Model 3, and have already said that performance-wise the e-Golf doesn't hold a candle to the Model 3. Yet in everyday driving over here, the e-Golf's performance is more than adequate as you are able to smoke almost every other car from a standstill like at traffic lights etc. The Model 3's advantage is especially noticeable on the Autobahn or during overtaking on country roads.
2) Handling (also not even close esp for the DMP+)
Don't know about the P, but handling in the e-Golf is even better than in the standard Golf, which already is renowned for very good handling. Handling in the Model 3 is fine, don't get me wrong, it just isn't really any better than in the e-Golf.
3) Braking (again, esp. for DMP+)
Very important point. The e-Golf brakes MUCH better than the Model 3, especially considering that the Model 3 offers just two modes of regen, the stronger of which feels ok, but the e-Golf offers five modes, from no regen at all to such brutal regen that the braking feels really extrem.
Stopping distance in the e-Golf was measured in tests by the ADAC at 35.6m from 100kph to zero, the Model 3 was measured at 42.0m for the same speed under comparable conditions. That is quite a difference.
4) Passive Safety and crash worthiness (not even close here either for any Model 3 by NHTSA data)
Euro NCAP crast testing for the Model 3 appears to be missing for now. The e-Golf was tested at 94% overall, meaning five stars. I wouldn't be surprised though if the Model 3 fared even better in that respect. We feel very safe in both cars actually.
4) Space utilization and carrying capacity (much more room in vehicle 16 inches longer)
That is obvious and I don't contest that in any way.
5) Range, plus much better and faster charging network
Range, yes, faster charging network? No actually. Both the e-Golf as well as the Model 3 over here use the CCS plug, both can use high speed chargers. Especially the FastNED and Ionity chargers are even faster than the Superchargers. And as the battery of the e-Golf is only about half the capacity of the Model 3 LR AWD, charging overall takes less time, at least that is what I have experienced up to now.
6) Ride (but these are close)
Sorry to burst your bubble but that is one of the weakest points of the Model 3 from my experience, but a very strong point of the e-Golf. The ride in the Model 3, especially with those 19'' wheels and hard Hankook tires is harsh to say the least, you feel every little bump in the road, plus sound deadening is much worse in the Model 3 making for a very noise experience, especially for an EV. The e-Golf is much quieter and the ride quality is several levels above that of the Model 3.
7) Styling (admittedly subjective but no one considers the Golf to be a looker)
Styling as you say is subjective and I therefor don't count styling in my equation. But just for the record, I like the Golf styling very much, especially in the version I have got, with the aggressive looking front, the dynamic turn signals, the rear light signature, etc.
8) Active safety and accident avoidance (collision warnings, info about nearby vehicles integrated into touchscreen, plus automatic EB)
That could be considered a tie overall, as the e-Golf in the configuration I have ordered has just as many active safety features as the Model 3. TACC, even basic autosteer, emergency braking, traffic sign recognition*. It even has blind spot warning in the side view mirrors, a very handy feature that the Model 3 doesn't even offer. Sure, the Model 3 shows (some) of the other vehicles on the touch screen, but as you are looking in the side view mirror before overtaking, a blind spot warning there imho makes much more sense. Plus, the Model 3 doesn't show all other nearby vehicles, plus sometimes what it shows is erratic, so the additional safety aspect, at least in the current iteration of the system, is at least questionable.
*As for traffic sign recognition by the way, while the e-Golf gets it right about 95% of the time, the recognition level in the Model 3 is much lower. Often the displayed speed has nothing to do with reality and seems more or less random.
9) Touchscreen and operating system integration
Again, either a slight advantage for the e-Golf or at the very best a tie. Much has been said about the over-reliance on the screen for each and every function in the Model 3, even those that would have better been left as physical controls (glove-box, wiper settings. etc.), but even if you don't consider those, the UI still leaves quite a bit to be desired. Voice controls don't work as they should, media integration is worse (no CD player, no SD card, no SIM slot or WiFi hotspot funtionality, no Android Auto or Apple carplay). Yes, Spotify is nice, but FM radio seems like an afterthought, whereas it both looks pretty and works perfect in the e-Golf.
Plus there is the theme of getting into the car. I would say 80% of the time the phone-as-a-key works, but about one in five times it doesn't work, which makes it just more cumbersome then just having a physical key. Certainly no deal-breaker, but just an annoyance. Like the problems with adding Homelink, which still doesn't work, no matter what I try.
10) Navigation system (also not even close)
Actually, again, no. Not from my experience. The navigation system in the e-Golf is better overall. It calculates the routes much faster, plus offers a choice of three different routes from the get-go (fastest, shortest, most economic). The Model 3 just offers one route, and the one it offers, especially on longer distances, is often far from ideal. On our typical route to our parents in law (300+ miles) it wanted to take us along country roads instead of the Autobahn, making the trip several hours longer than normal. Plus it offers no way to individualize or change the route. You probably just have to go and drive a different route and wait for it to adapt and recalculate. Will see in a couple of weeks when we actually drive there next. Plus there are reports that the nav system in the Model 3 has problems factoring in current traffic jam situations, which is why some Model 3 drivers use the Google nav app on their phone instead.
11) semi-autonomous driving/autopilot
A feature I hardly use. I need/want enhanced TACC for driving in traffic jams, and both cars offer this. So a tie.
12) Updated and improved regularly - only car (other than other Teslas) currently getting significantly better with age. Recent improvements to power output, cold weather behavior, climate control flexibility, nav system, autopilot, and too many others to mention here.
That is indeed a major advantage of the Model 3. No question about that.
13) Fun to drive? Admittedly subjective, but I can't believe that anyone considers the e-Golf the equal of the Tesla Model 3, again esp. DMP+ versions in terms of driver enjoyment)
Yes, fun is subjective, and the immense acceleration in the Model 3 is fun and highly addictive. But in everyday driving, the e-Golf is also a lot of fun, especially considering the the better ride quality and much quieter cabin noise.
If one just focuses on the big picture here, I can't say that I see a real basis for your judgment other than pique - unless the QC and paint issues in your mind are just so egregious that they somehow cancel out the performance, handling, safety, tech, efficiency and range along with the many other advantages of the Model 3?
It's really not close, at least IMO, and this shouldn't be surprising, as the e-Golf is a warmed over ICE design. The Model 3 is a clean sheet of paper. They really aren't comparable. As fine a car as the Golf is, as the single most successful sedan in Europe, it's simply not competitive with the Model 3.
There's a reason why the Model 3, despite everyone and their mother being aware of the QC issues you and others complain about, is outselling, indeed, drop kicking every other premium sedan in the USA, and now in Europe. It's because people get the big picture. But do you?
Of course I get the big picture. Why do you think we went fully BEV with our family? Why do you think I bought a Model 3 in the first place?
But I do indeed believe, even though it was not designed at all to be a BEV, the e-Golf does an admirable job for what it is, and like I explained above, even beats the Model 3 in quite a few aspects. And not unimportant ones at that. So overall yes, it is still my favorite car of those I have owned. The Model 3 is close, like I said, but it is just so annoying in some aspects that matter during everyday use, that I couldn't put it in the top spot when I try to be perfectly honest.
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