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Natural gas vehicles (NGVs, CNG)

Discussion in 'Cars and Transportation' started by vfx, Apr 18, 2009.

  1. jaanton

    jaanton Roadster NA #1026

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    And they use a bunch of electricity to run. So much that PG&E will give you E-9 TOU tariff rates to run the compressor to fuel your CNG vehicle. Makes them practically an EV.
     
  2. Robert.Boston

    Robert.Boston Model S VIN P01536

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    Look what was driving ahead of me on my commute today:
    Honda Civic CNG.jpg
     
  3. vfx

    vfx Well-Known Member

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    Actually heard a commercial for a Honda Natural Gas Civic today on LA radio. It was all about taking advantage of the HOV lane till 2015.
     
  4. doug

    doug Administrator / Head Moderator

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    A U2 fan?

    On several occasions I've seen these Honda CNG cars driving around (typically fleet vehicles either owned by the city or by PG&E). I'm surprised they aren't promoted more. They're available right now, and are another arrow in the quiver of bridge technologies while batteries get better and cheaper.
     
  5. TEG

    TEG TMC Moderator

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    I wish someone (e.g., Honda) would do a CNG hybrid. Increasing MPG by having electric assist+regen, and the inherent low emissions of CNG would be a good combo, IMHO. (For those that have issues with cost and range of pure electrics...)

    Also, natural gas prices have recently come way down due to the results of the horrid (for the environment) fracking campaign:
    Natural Gas Cost Less | What Is Fracking
    The Hidden Danger of the Gas Boom | The Price of Oil
    maybe the "Pickens' Plan" still has some legs:
    About The Plan | Pickens Plan
     
  6. dpeilow

    dpeilow Moderator

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    The thought crossed my mind to see how easy it would be to make the Volt/Ampera ICE run on LPG, which is readily available around the UK (so readily available that it amazes me that the cars are as rare as hens' teeth - maybe people like paying through the nose for petrol?).
     
  7. richkae

    richkae VIN587

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  8. doug

    doug Administrator / Head Moderator

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    As far as a fuel for the "range extender" in a PHEV, the key features are quick fueling and the "readily available" part David mentions above. So if LPG is readily available then it's fine. But around here, I don't think CNG is readily available to the general public for quick fueling. So that makes CNG a poor fuel for a range extender. Same for hydrogen. You might as well just use gasoline.
     
  9. richkae

    richkae VIN587

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    I think that CNG fueling stations are orders of magnitude more expensive than quick charging stations. So it would be far cheaper to build the infrastructure for EVs than for CNG cars.
     
  10. TEG

    TEG TMC Moderator

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    Which is what they are doing for the most part, except that as gasoline gets more expensive, and CNG/LPG becomes cheaper (as it has become lately) one starts to think in terms of economics.
    Plus, there is the "domestic fuel" vs "imported fuel" argument.
     
  11. TEG

    TEG TMC Moderator

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    Also, long ago I had converted one of my old/long-since-gone cars to run on LPG. Part of the reasons was improved engine longevity. Cleaner burning without the carbon deposits like you get from gasoline.
    Typically I would refill it at places that refuel barbeque tanks. Many gas stations have LPG fill-up in back. Many RVs need LPG for their stoves and water heaters, so there are places to find it...

    I am still 100% for 100% BEV, but for those stuck using a range extender, I think it would be good to offer CNG/LPG choices, not just gasoline.
     
  12. doug

    doug Administrator / Head Moderator

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    LPG and CNG, practically speaking, are really different beasts. You can fill CNG at home, but it's super slow and you're better off just plugging in. LPG is available at many places and since is stores basically as a liquid (along is some moderate pressure gas), it fills faster and the tanks are much more manageable.

    So yeah, an LPG PHEV could be a pretty good idea. But that's probably a topic for a different thread.
     
  13. doug

    doug Administrator / Head Moderator

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  14. doug

    doug Administrator / Head Moderator

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  15. VolkerP

    VolkerP EU Model S P-37

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    In the long term, even NG as a fossile fuel must be replaced with something else. Audi talks about synthetic NG. Since CNG/LPG still poses new requirements on storage inside the vehicle and on filling stations, what synthetic hydrocarbon would be the ideal replacement for diesel to use e.g. in long haul trucking?
     
  16. jerry33

    jerry33 S85 - VIN:P05130 - 3/2/13

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    +1 NG seems to me to be just switching from heroin to meth.
     
  17. William13

    William13 Member

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    My dad had two LPG cars in the 1970's. They were duel fuel gasoline and LPG. He has several LPG trucks to this day as he sell propane.

    The benefit with LPG is fast refuel time and large numbers of available refill places currently. It can go duel fuel also. The natural gas requires higher pressure, larger tank size, or specialized tank material.

    There are many benefits to the LPG cars.
     
  18. VolkerP

    VolkerP EU Model S P-37

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    In Germany, LPG cars are banned from underground parking areas. Reason being, gas leaking from LPG tank forms an invisible, highly flammable puddle on the floor.

    So, we come from H2 (forget it), CH4 (synthetic NG), to C3H8 (Propane). Any candidates for liquid hydrocarbons, e.g. Methanol or Butanol? Raw material sources and synthesis process?
     
  19. doug

    doug Administrator / Head Moderator

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    #40 doug, Sep 10, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 13, 2016


    What's interesting here is the explosion is just from the release of pressure from the compressed gas and not from combustion. Those guys are lucky the gas didn't ignite.

    via CNG tank explodes while owner fills up
     

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