Nit picking, but: AP 2.5 is also air cooled - in the S/X. In Model 3, you have water-cooling but that's for the full "ice" unit i.e. both MCU and AP 2.5 in sandwich config
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Neural Networks
- Thread starter lunitiks
- Start date
You must mean for new cars? Chances of retrofitting an ICE unit into existing S/X is 0 %
Of course. Retrofit units are the reason for different types (great great grandfather? post in this chain) and 30 minute swap outs.
Air cooled and separate from APE25 (i.e. still boxed inside the old CID enclosure)
That's unknown as we don't know how extensive the change is.
My prediction is the entire drive computer will be pulled out, and replaced. So after the upgrade the drive computer will be identical whether you have an S/X or a 3.
What I don't know isf how Tesla will deal with any cable differences between AP2 and AP2.5.
AP2.5 supposedly has more redundancy in the cabling. I don't know if they'll try to replace this or if they'll just leave it as is.
@lunitiks has detailed the hardware redundancies for hw2.5 and I know about the radar swap but the glove compartment module should be hot swappable based on Banons comments on Q3 call but he also mentioned trim pieces and cabling were fabricated to facilitate a clean swap which got me thinking that they had a one stop solution no matter the model involved but that seemed fanciful given the hardware differences.
Ulmo
Active Member
Just to be clear, Model 3 has this mounted to the firewall:
^ The so-called "ICE". An enclosure that contains both the Autopilot 2.5 board and the Infotainment board (the intel-stuff etc. for the touchscreen). As you can see, it has inlet and outlet tubes for liquid cooling. These tubes actually run through the firewall, into the "frunk"-area and connect to the coolant reservoir and pump:
(Images/screenshots from Ingineerix' YT-vids, eBay.)
So for an Autopilot HW 3.0 (computer-only) retrofit for Model 3, I guess the Service Center will have to either disassemble the entire ICE module - which means disconnecting all the wires, emptying the glycol, disconnecting the coolant tubes from the module and then replace the ICE with a new one - or somehow replace the AP-board while the ICE is still in place (with the coolant connected). I'm not sure if the latter is doable, however. The AP-board is the one that's closest to the firewall so you'll have to remove the Infotainment-board first. But then you'll still have to deal with the cooling element in the middle, it seems:
Thoughts?
Anyway I'm looking forward to see how they solve this
^ The so-called "ICE". An enclosure that contains both the Autopilot 2.5 board and the Infotainment board (the intel-stuff etc. for the touchscreen). As you can see, it has inlet and outlet tubes for liquid cooling. These tubes actually run through the firewall, into the "frunk"-area and connect to the coolant reservoir and pump:
(Images/screenshots from Ingineerix' YT-vids, eBay.)
So for an Autopilot HW 3.0 (computer-only) retrofit for Model 3, I guess the Service Center will have to either disassemble the entire ICE module - which means disconnecting all the wires, emptying the glycol, disconnecting the coolant tubes from the module and then replace the ICE with a new one - or somehow replace the AP-board while the ICE is still in place (with the coolant connected). I'm not sure if the latter is doable, however. The AP-board is the one that's closest to the firewall so you'll have to remove the Infotainment-board first. But then you'll still have to deal with the cooling element in the middle, it seems:
Thoughts?
Anyway I'm looking forward to see how they solve this
Their custom chip likely doesn’t require anywhere near the same cooling as the NVIDIA GPU. Maybe the new module won’t require liquid cooling. Of course I have no idea if where the model 3 module sits has any ventilation for air cooling though...
Thoughts?
Anyway I'm looking forward to see how they solve this
This is probably why they removed the FSD option from new orders. They realized it's going to be more difficult to just "drop in" the new board.
And then a week later came and said on a conference call that it's a 30-minute swap?
" Super easy still on track with it being produced and installed in a few vehicles. "
This would imply you now definitely know what parts and changes are required to be swapped out.
So you cannot weasel out and say oh it's longer than 30 minutes.
Since in q3 conference you said you already had installed it on all your different cars and that it was a quick swap.
There may be a reason but I find this one not as probable.
My personal one is that it was underpriced for what it would deliver and more importantly too vague/wide (This has key revenue recognition implications):
I would expect them to add multiple options package (and reduce EAP price a little)
Ie. have FSD "tier 1" and FSD "tier 2" original FSD purchasers grandfathered in.
Or maybe add some of this features under EAP and still leave more well defined / last tier FSD for a future where there is nobody in the car and regs/law allows it.
I expect them to be more granular on what's included on each of this Individual tiers in concrete deliverable features.
Tier 1
- Your car will now do stops signs, traffic lights, and yields, roundabouts (expect marketing to come up with a fancy name)
- Automatic parking seeking on a shopping center/mall
- etc etc.
- Your car will do left and right turns and local exits (Road has a separate yield to the right or left to enter an establishment kinda thing)
- etc..
I agree.
Moving to ASCI even on a higher process node (say 14) would still deliver a really low TDP making it easier to be air cooled (maybe that's what they mean by trim pieces?)
To reduce complexity of the glycol they could make a loop/ushaped connector to make the glycol just return to the front without going to a heatsink(again "trim piece / fit") and instead of fully flush the glycol use the software to actuate the valve under the coolant tank and allow emptying the lines of the computer.
Summary:
- Remove coolant pipes and plug the holes (or add u shaped pass thru in place in the coolant tank area)
- Flush the pipes going to the AP3 computer
- Leave in place and plug both ends or remove maybe they come up with a way to do so without raising the car and removing the lower shield.
The AP 2.5-board itself clearly doesn’t «require» liquid cooling, as the S/X runs air cooled 2.5 apes.
The same can be said for ICE’s Infotainment-board - assuming S/X MCU2 has the same board (S/X MCU2 is air cooled).
So the liquid cooling for M3 is either because the sandwich/double board layout «requires» it (brighter minds than mine can answer that), or, it was an engineering decision based on a bunch of other parameters like NVH, maintenance/lifespan, dash design ++
[Admittedly whipping the off-topic horse here, but d00d what a fine horse]
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